I have read thousands of comments on upgraded fuses improving the performance of sound. I am very open minded but not sold either way. So, the question I have is....if fuses were so important, than why don't Amplifier companies all install them as OEM equipment? To me, if they are as good as people say, that would provide companies who use them a competitive advantage?
Every High End Audio store I go to in Phoenix have told me it does not make a difference and is a waste of money. For the record, I have fuses purchased at an automotive store for under $10 and I think my sound is awesome. The Company that built my amp tested the Synergistic Fuses and he emphatically said there was no difference.
If I were to try a fuse for fun, given my equipment, what would your recommendation be to try?
Whoa! What? Hey, I was totally unaware you could have a $60K system and NOT be an audiophile. What’s up with that? Have I been living in a cave? 🙄 Well, now that I think about it, I have a $50 system and am definitely an audiophile. So I guess anything is possible. 😛
nonoise @almarg I see what you’re getting at. Lest anyone else (other than Al, who knows) confuse the matter of in-room SPLs and volume setting, what I was referring to is volume settings. How that translates to in room SPLs, I can’t say. What I can say is now there’s too much pressure on my ears using the older volume setting.
Whewww! That was a close call. Thanks for the clarification. I’m pretty sure Al and krosst_emoji will find it in their hearts to sign up to that one. 🙄
Willgolf - turn off email notifications for Audiogon. Then your inbox will not be such a mess. You can always go to the 'related to you' section in your account to catch up on threads you're involved in. That's what I do. I hate managing endless emails...
Put the PADIS fuses in my class D monos. They definitely sound better already. Better clarity and imaging, smoother mids, cleaner bass. Very happy with these guys.
I'm sure it's just because I cleaned the contacts when I changed fuses. That and a bunch of expectation bias. 😝
Okay, My results are in after installing the PADIS fuse. I am also playing with different sets of vintage Russian Tubes. So I currently have Gold Lion KT 88 Russian tubes in my Raven Amp. First, in answer to Geoff's comment about my statement that I don't consider myself to be an audiophile despite having high end equipment. The reason I say this is that I could not tell you a thing about measuring frequencies, or anything related to specs and performance of equipment. I base everything on what I hear and whether I enjoy or not. That is it plain and simple. I am not a audio geek in that sense.
Regarding the Padis fuse..like when I change power tubes, I did hear a performance improvement from the new fuse. The vocals were clearer, the instrumentation was more defined. My music is definitely better. I believe it is more pronounced on Rock, Country and Jazz. I did not hear as much difference listening to Classical, which I don't understand. So, for $30 dollars it is definitely worth it in my mind.
As a result of this test, I just ordered the SR Blue fuse. It will be interesting to see if I hear further improvement. According to the reviews the new SR Blue starts opening up after 24 hours.
I am also debating either trading my Lumin A-1 in for a S-1, or adding an EMM Lab DAC2X V2 D/A Converter to my A-1. Most of my music is stored in a Synology NAS. I am told these changes would up my performance even more. If anyone has any experience with the S-1 or Emm Lab your comments are welcome.
I hope you can leave your amp on to give the fuse about 100 hours so it is fully settled in. If possible reverse the direction of the fuse and see if it sounds better. It may sound more articulate in one direction.
I look forward to your comparison between the Padis and the SR Blue fuse.
@davidpritchard - good advice. However, keep in mind that the Furutech/PADIS fuses with the rhodium will take 200-250 hours to fully burn in. 100 hours will not cut it on these.
@willgolf I’m glad you’re having a positive experience with the PADIS fuse. But, and there’s always a but, remember what @auxinput stated about how the fuse takes a while to settle in. @davidpritchard is right as well. You’ll experience some ups and downs but they’ll be short lived and with each step, it just gets better and better. 😀
As for correct direction, the big tip off they were in the wrong direction for me was the rolled off highs. If they are like you remember them and everything else is better, then odds are you have them in the right direction.
Great to hear that you heard improvements with PADIS fuses. Please do post your findings with SR Blue fuses. I went with SR Black’s last month in my preamp / DAC and they were substantial upgrades over stock fuses.
About directionality, if you end up installing the fuse incorrectly you should hear vocals slightly masked in addition to highs rolled off as @nonoise pointed out.
One more point, if you find SR fuse bit on bright side (and they can be with tube gear) try the HiFi Tuning Supreme Fuse. They are very extremely neutral. I end up going with a combination of SR Black and Supremes in my tube amp / pre and DAC components.
In any case, allow atleast 100 burn-in hours with your choice of fuse.
The key is price! The more you spend on your fuses, the better they sound. One should spend many many thousands on a single fuse to be a worthy audiophile. <sarcasm off>
Thankfully it is free! I probably wouldn't ridicule such silliness if I had to pay a dime to do it. Are these fuse fans going to start obsessing over the choice of solder? What about those aluminum legs on their transistors? Did somebody check to see if the circuit board traces are directional? Said it before and I'll say it again. If a fuse has any noticable impact on sound your amp is a pile of garbage.
And lets not forget the little blind naysayer people following the little blind nonbeliever sheep. Geeze, and now there are little minds, little statesmen, and the philosophers and divines are, I'm guessing, kind of little too.
I was just thinking about this today.. this obsession that some have with quantitative data. Do I like measurements? Heck yeah! If we can quantify something, that’s great, let’s use that data if it’s useful. But if they’re is a large sample consisting of people whose subjective experiences all have common descriptions, that’s a valid data point, quantifiable or not. If a naysayer is not willing to suspend their judgement and perform the subjective test, then they aren’t understanding the argument. It’s like taking about evolution with a hard core fundamentalist ’Christian’. It’s never really a discussion, because they are patently unwilling to accept data that is foundational.
jetter And lets not forget the little blind naysayer people following the little blind nonbeliever sheep. Geeze, and now there are little minds, little statesmen, and the philosophers and divines are, I’m guessing, kind of little too.
if _there_ is a large sample consisting of people whose subjective experiences all have common descriptions
then that is useful grist for the hypothesis forming mill, but not what any scientist would call data
if you then make sure the sample is statistically valid and uses relevant methodology (such as double blind testing) THEN you have real data (and would next want to find the mechanistic reasons for the difference)
the former might be akin to what we'd call clinical experience
You obviously don’t understand testing, evidence or the fallibility of blind tests. Of course that’s nothing new. Pseudo skeptics have been threatening audiophiles with their silly blind tests for ages.
If you're hearing things that only exist in your head, I'm pretty sure the DSM has a diagnosis for that. Like it or not, we can measure damn near anything. But I'll say it again... If your amp is effected by a fuse, your amp truly sucks. If the power supply cannot soak up such a minor variance among the much more measurable perturbations, it's simply not doing its job and is extremely poorly designed. If you want to know why high end amps don't come packaged with snake oil, that's why. They believe in the ability of their design to be immune to such insignificant things.
Costco_emoji, let me know when they, whoever they are, can measure sweetness, air, glare, musicality, presence, music that gives you goosebumps, venue recognition. No need to reply, it's only a rhetorical statement. 😛
It's only rhetorical because you don't want to acknowledge the answer. All these attributes you describe do have measurement signatures. You can design to those measurements and achieve those attributes and designers do it all the time. That's why Wilson, B&W, Focal, Pass, Boulder, McIntosh, and myriad other brand's products have a certain signature sound to them. So yeah, you can measure all those attributes to a good degree. Nothing sounds sweet or warm if it doesn't exhibit the measurements of those characteristics. You folks who think measurements are completely unrelated to the sound are in wild juxtaposition to reality and the people who design this stuff. Go learn some stuff.
Uh, nobody ever said measurements are completely unrelated to the sound, silly. Geez, talk about a Strawman argument. Obviously some audio parameters are measureable - loudness, dynamic range, frequency response, channel separation, signal to noise ratio, total harmonic distortion are measurable. I'm just guessing, but this whole measurement obsession appears to be nothing more than a manifestation of the Mid Fi crowd.
@geoffkait Yeah... All that mid-fi like the brands I mentioned.
Funny thing. Last night I was reading up on the F6 and Nelson pointed out that each unit is meticulously MEASURED to insure every unit sounds the same. We all know how mid-fi Pass designs are, don't we? I like how you cherry picked one phrase to mischaracterize a broader point but ignored everything else you lack the fortitude to address. You're good at that. You didn't understand the meaning of my words and sentences, did you? That's a pretty torpid list of measurements too. If that's all you're measuring the end result probably would be anybody's guess. You're rebuttal to my post should have been obvious. Simply point out what characteristics evade a measurement signature. But you can't do that. Just rhetoric and left-handed insults.
The more I read posts, the more I see that you both like to flame discussions. If that is what you both want to do, there’s nobody here that will prevent you (unless forum administrators jump in).
However, please keep in mind that while you have the large number of posts you submit attacking each other, you are also attacking the OP by swamping their mailbox with posts that they probably don’t want. It is also frustrating to other users reading these discussions when the subject matter diverts into a flame war. You’re not just hurting each other, you’re hurting the OP and many other readers. If this is what you really want to do, I can’t stop you, but I hope you are aware of the impacts, especially to newer users who don't understand who you guys are.
No offense auxinput but it appears to me you actually don’t understand the situation. If I have transgressed I’m sure the mods will let me know. It’s pretty pathetic when someone cannot make a declarative statement without someone repeatedly barging in with a barrage of insults. Which is in fact what is happening and what has been ongoing. I don’t believe I ever insulted what’s his name. In case you haven't noticed I tend to pick up a lot of uh, detractors, whatever on this forum and try to deal with them in the most humorous way possible. Of course anyone is free to not read these exchanges. No one is twisting anyone's arm.
Entertaining reading guys! Lots of snarky repartee. Both Kosst and Geoff might want to watch "Morning Joe" on MSNBC with the sound off. You've never seen snarky until you've watched Mika Brzezinski's face and the impact of her visual condescension. Have fun!
Kosst - Do you really believe that all the subjective descriptors mentioned in Geoff's earlier post are quantifiable with measurable data??
kosst_amojan Not really. I’m just asking somebody to prove it and I get stuff like "Morphic fields" for answers.
>>>>A little heads up. If you’re going to stalk somebody you should figure out which thread you’re on first. I hate to be judgemental but it appears you have Morphic fields on the brain.
Sometimes it's better to go out with a whimper than a bang, to do go gently into that good night.
I just got off the phone with a wonderful gent from The Cable Co. and he spoke of how there are 3 different levels of fuses out there. They mostly come from Germany and the most basic, throw away fuses are used in mass market products, including audio gear. They vary widely in value despite the ratings which is why they don't blow when they should.
The mid level fuses are the ones being used and marketed by the audio companies (PADIS, SR, AH, HiFi, etc.) which have much tighter tolerances, which is why they blow when they should. Imagine all the gear out there drawing more current than they should due to the poor tolerances of the standard fuses they come with. It gives me the shudders. Now imagine if all the gear out there were designed with at least a mid level fuse instead of one that doesn't perform as intended. Big pause there as well.
All discussions of sonics aside, I want to have a fuse that blows when it should and not allow higher levels of current than the design calls for. Those who have argued that standard fuses are good enough need to reevaluate their positions if their gear is important to them. Going up a value or two with a mid level fuse can be considered pushing it but having a fuse allow it on a continual basis while deluding one into thinking it's not is not kosher.
The highest grade fuses are for vital computer, defense and medical applications. I'd love to get my hands on those but they are unavailable to folk like us. Like the gent from The Cable Co. told me, just try them for yourselves and if you don't like them, return them.
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