http://www.ayonaudio.com/fileadmin/upload/review/helios_CD5s_Audiophile_2011.pdf
Here's a review from the Ayon website which also states the CD5S uses the PCM1704 |
They didn't change the PCM1704 building block of the CD5S from the CD5.
where did you get that information?
Here's a pic of the PCM1704
http://highfidelity.pl/foto_testy/1108/cd5s/22.jpg
from this review of the 5S
http://highfidelity.pl/@main-209&lang=en
The 1796 is used in the CD07 IIRC |
the ayon 2s is not on death row,I find that it is odd the 5s and 2s are not compatible with everything, as for amps,Im currious to know if that ping sound is DC, that is audible thru the amp,thru the speakers? |
Im sorry, the 7s ayon uses pcm 1796 dacs, I thought the 5s did, 5s pcm1704. |
No, the 2s will not be on death row,I seen on Ayons web site, the 5s uses the BB pcm 1796, as my vincent player did, the old ayon 5 used bb1704 dac as does the 2s. |
Hi DH, thanks for the f/b on the CD-5s' dac. It is a really good dac imho (essentially a Skylla 2 with an extra psu and transport). |
On a whim, I dug out the Wavelink HS box and hooked my MBA to the USB port and gave the Ayon's PCM1704UK DAC a whirl.
Still sounds pretty good even if I had to use a cheap-ish NuForce impulse USB cable (only one I had that was long enough. |
It sounds like your CD-2s is on Death Row Al, lol! |
Hope my Krell 700cx is benign to the Ayon issues with amps,interesting thread,If issues occur I will get rid of AYON alltogether,defiently not any thing else I have. |
Saint, I dug up my old listening notes from the a-b-a test I did when I sold my old CD-5 vs the buyer's Audio Aero Prestige -
"The buyer was using an Audio Aero Prestige player and we a-b-a tested it on the same music & the differences were certainly clear to me; the AA was more rolled off in comparison, the dac section was less detailed and accurate & the midrange was bloated. I also felt it had a 'sheen', like a veil clouding the music. The AA certainly sounded warm, though I felt that quality was compensating for omissions elsewhere. In comparison, the CD-5 had better weighted bass & extension, the above-mentioned veil was lifted, sound came from a dead quiet background & you then felt like the band were in the room playing for you. The buyer also noticed the improved detail and accuracy of the dac, whilst his wife noticed the above-mentioned veil being lifted, though on first impression said she preferred that quality in the AA."
...the end result? The buyer kept the Ayon and sold the AA.
I haven't heard the AA Capitole Mk2, but the Prestige was AA's previous top model. AA players do certainly sound organic in the way that Avalon speakers do, but ultimately I found the Ayon more satisfying. For synergy, i'd be cautious matching the CD-5s to your Bryston 6B SST. As Doggiehowser mentioned earlier, because the Ayon is a valve preamp & has zero NFB, it needs to be matched with an amp with high input impedance >47kOhms. The Bryston's input impedance is 50kOhms balanced & 20kOhms unbalanced, therefore if you decide on the Ayon, i'd run it in balanced mode, otherwise you'll get hum (read: bad). I use a Boulder 1060 which has an input impedance of 100k ohms (balanced) and 50k ohms (unbalanced) which is benign to even the weakest tube preamp.
Overall, if you want a more laid back player, i'd go for the AA, but if you want a more dynamic, vivid and 3d sound, i'd go for the Ayon (especially if you want to use it as preamp). Btw, for the CD-5s I recommend upgrading the tubes to 6H30P-DR's if you want to get even better resolution/dynamics, or cryo-treated EH Gold Pins if you're want a warm, lush sound. I also recommend upgrading the factory Burr Brown OPA627AP op amps. The OPA627AP's were about the best op amps 20 years ago, but are only midrange op amps today. I had my AE swap them out for Burson Single HD discrete op amps which were a nice upgrade. The Bursons sound more open like a stream, added sound stage width, improved bass & sounds more analogue.
Hope that helps,
MG |
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Hello,
I have been considering Ayon CD-5s and Audio Aero Capitole MKII or Reference. My amplifier is Bryston 6B SST (only use the right and left channel) and my speakers are KEF Reference R205 (the old reference, not the new one). I'd like to know what you guys think better for my amp + speaker. I like warm sound, wide soundstage and good separation (3D). Above all, I like a sound that makes me enjoy music for hours without thinking about what makes the sound.
Which one do you recommend and why? Please remember, I am not eager to change either the Amp or the speakers. Any feedback will be highly appreciated.
Thank you. |
I have a question on the Ayon SPirit III.
Which 12au7 tubes (front two or back two) are the drivers and which ones are the signal?
If I am running in direct mode (seperate preamp), which of the tubes would not matter? I am palnning on tube rolling and would love to know the answer to the above.
Much thanks,
Assad |
Audiolab
Thanks for the elaboration. Good to know that you were trying to be helpful. It looks like I will have the opportunity to audition 28K worth of respected Masterbuilt cable in my system sometime soon. Will let you know my thoughts. |
gammajo,I am a muscian, a singer for 25 years,you should use what works best for you,im sorry if I came across wrong, i"ve just have been doing high-end a very long time, to me , there is not a cable in the live sound market that remotely comes close to most of your high-end cables, I know you did say you have a high-end interconnect, awsome,may i suggest taralabs, anything under $2,000 dont mess with,i know its costly, you get what you pay for,do i agree with todays cable prices, absolutely not! its crazy to me, on the other hand, I pay,I have been buying taralabs for 20 years, tried everything during those years,put it this way, if you respect the absolute sound magazine, taralabs the zero gold interconnect just won edditors choice 2012 award, they haVE MADE THAT CABLE SINCE 1998, WOW! SEEMS THE TECHNOLOGY IS HARD TO SURPASS, i AM DEFIENTLY not rich! poor,I do think cables are on my top list of importance, I will be upgrading to zero gold soon enough, may take a little time, worth the wait! |
Audiolab
As far as I can see this thread was set up to discuss anything Ayon, not just the CD5s. The Cd5s is not a $12,500 CD player, rather a Transport, DAC and Preamp in one. If you are referring to me re ICs, I agree that they need to be shielded, but in many listening tests for me in my system the highly shielded mic cord sounded the best. I still kept my expensive IC's and at times put them back in to see if the result is the same and it is. You are free to try it with an open mind. |
Im a ayon fan! buying 2s, i do know this is a 5s thread, but i could not help my self to say something, mmm, 5s 12,500 cd player,reading all the gentlemens threads and so on,I seen the story of the ping sound,I have a krell amp, so that got my attention, the krell 700cx in fact.,which does have 100koms impeadence, I do not mean any disrespect,I am bewilderd, with, why in the world, would anybody use such inferior interconnects with such fine equipment?, studio, PA cables at that,none shielded, one word, wow!, I do realize everyone has an opinion,I use multi-thousand dollar taralabs interconnect, very much shielded! again, still want to know why?, the inferior cables, im buying into $6,350 2s, to see what ayon is about, then , maybe 5s, if i see the need, gentlemen, No disrespect here!, im a firm believer of esoteric cables and amps,and resonance control, I'm a minimalist, and enjoy audio. |
MacMini
SSD (do a custom install of OS X without the extra apps)
8GB RAM minimum
Audirvana Plus
Use TB or FW for external storage of files
Use a good USB-SPDIF interface. I suggest Wavelink HS |
I aim to add a server to my system whose nucleus is the venerable CD5s. I intend to build a library of 192/24 and 96/24 files; any suggestions regarding servers and favored input (USB, SPDIF, TOSLINK, etc). |
Particularly bad with active speakers with <47kOhm input impedance |
Thanks Doggiehowser. Any particular power amps that you experienced noisy and hum? |
|
If the Skylla preamp is anything like the CD5S, I think it seems fairly noisy if it's
not partnered well with the power amp.
So best to audition with the power amps you want first. On others it's virtually
silent. |
I'm contemplating upgrading my w4s to skyline II or amr dp777. I may consider to replace my mc2300 pre iwth ayon dac skyline. I wonder if anyone have compared the preamp of ayon and more particularly to mc2300. Many thanks |
Anybody try the Tung Sol KT-120 in the Triton II? It seams they increased the size of the Spirit III transformers to handle the KT-120s but this is not mentioned in the Triton II or III desciption on the Ayon Audio website. |
My Ayon Orion II had a meltdown within 2 hours of turning on the unit. They are replacing the unit but my confidence has taken a hit. Paul says this is the first time he has had to replace an Orion II. |
I have owned the Ayon CD1, CD2, CD5 and Triton. I love the Ayon products. I did have some issues with the Triton. However, I got concerned about Ayon rolling out "s" this and that only after a very short time. I now own the PS Audio PWD MKII and Bob Carver 180's mono-blocks and would not go back.
I still love Ayon so this is not meant to be negative. They are extremely well made and gorgeous. |
Does anyone use Ayon equipment with Magnepan speakers? If so, which units with which speakers? Do you like the combination? |
Does anyone use Ayon equipment with Magnepan speakers? If so, which units with which speakers? Do you like the combination? |
speakers AYON DRAGON-S
How i can make that speaker a little "faster" or more dynamic ?
Does some sort of spikes will help and which one ove the sound in the direction of faster ?
Are any other method maybe help here ?
Thanks
Robert |
I own Ayon Triton best match with AZ crezcendos.
Absolutely amazing combo.
Regards |
Hi Jmohd, I have the CD-5 and have experienced similar problems. I am connected direct with the Triton and use synergistic active rca's and have Sonus Faber Amiti's. I wonder is the tubes are seated properly? the anomalies tend to disappear after the units anneal or come up to temperature. did you get your problems solved? Very curios. Thanx. |
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I have the 07 and the USB dac out gunned my Peachtree idac which is saying a lot. |
The USB input IMHO was not worth the upgrade over the 5. But the analog volume stage and preamp output was, along with the XLR input.
You will get far better results with an OffRamp or Audiophileo or Wavelink HS |
Any comments regarding the USB input / playback would be appreciated - I probably won't be rolling with the BIG Boys. I'm looking more at the CD 1SC or the CD 07s - thank you for your comments. |
Jmohd
What's the input impedance on your passlabs?
The Ayon doesn't have negative feedback so in the manual, it states that partnering with lower input impedance power amps CAN cause such distortions. I had the same problem with a pair of Focal Solo 6 Be active speakers.
Ayon recommends using amps with an input impedance of > 47kOhms
https://passlabs.com/products/amplifiers/xa.5/xa100.5
The PassLabs only has 30? I think. |
Robsker,
What RCAs are you currently using? My experience with the RCA clear tops in my Spirit has been a poor one. I've tried them in both the signal and driver stages and I've tried them paired with a variety of other tubes all to the same result.....bad. By bad I mean the highs were to exaggerated,to harsh, and unrefined. I thought the same of the reissue Gold Lion KT88s. In my room with my system I've had good results with the following. CBS HYTRON 5814s paired with GE pinched gray plate triple mica 5814s, or Seimens chrome plates, or Mullard long plates, or even another pair of CBS 5814s. As for as the power tubes go, I've gone to 6550s exclusively. Right now it's the GE welded plates. It's a little difficult to recommend tubes (tone controls) not knowing your system and your sonic likes and dislikes. Look up Brent Jessie online. He has a fairly detailed sonic description of the various flavors of 12au7s. |
Hi, My CD5s have problems. 1) ping noise 2) "thundering" / " rumbling" noise
I use the CD5s in pre and xlr mode connect direct to my Passlabs Xa100.5 mono blocks. At first the "thundering" / " rumbling" noise started on left channel. Stop playing after that, a few days later try to play again and the "thundering" / " rumbling" noise came intermittedly. A few days later try to play again, given sufficient time to warm up and the "thundering" / " rumbling" noise was gone.
I enjoyed (atlast) and returned back to "state of trance"..... Only for few days..then the "thundering" / " rumbling" noise came back and now on the right channel. Tried using RCA still same problem and add on to another problem loud "thud" when power up.
I also had connected the CD5s to headphone amp. The problem happen again on right side of headphone and after that totally no sound on the right side of headphone.
I accidently pressed the fixed volume. After that no more "thundering" / " rumbling" noise ( on headphone). Now, no more playing... worried that the problems could damage my speakers.
The "thundering" / " rumbling" noise also present on line 1&2. I had already informed my local Ayon distrubutor and now waiting ....hope not a loooong wait :(
May be I will looking at other CDP...
|
Does anyone have suggestions for tube rolling on the Spirit II amp? I have harshness on piano transients and some clarinet passages that is just grating. I replaced the original RCA 12AU7's with a different set of RCA's that were supposed to be smoother... and it helped some... but not enough. The Gold Lion KT88's --- perhaps some of you have replaced them with different KT88's or perhaps 6550's or KT120's --- if so how sonically do things change?
Has anyone else had this harshness and if so, how did you get rid of it? |
Soniqmike,
I can't comment on the 430mv vs 450mv question. However, I've been running a variety of 6550s in my Spirit II for some time now. Bias them to 450mv as well and have encountered no problems from this. In fact, I am very pleased with the sonic attributes of the 6550s paired with the Spirit.
Thanks |
Hi Ayon owners!
I own a nice Orion integrated.
Quick questions please:
With KT-88 tubes, manual says biasing 450mv, however an Ayon tech rep tells me 430mv is better...any comments?
Also, they tell me that 6550's should not be used as they are ''lower voltage'' tubes. I understand some Ayons users are using the 6550 anyways, biasing value on those?
Thanks! |
Well Denon i'm not going to mention where I bought my RST-38 board, i've had to learn that lesson the hard way. The board is a standard size (482Wx38Hx382Dmm) which is a perfect fit for the CD-5/CD-5s imho. The outer edge of the feet sits a mil or two inside the outer edge of the top board. I found (one) website which listed the board @$1100.00US. If you look around you may find a better price. But even at that price, it is good value when you consider the price of RIQ-501OW feet & the huge amount of natural crystal supplied with this board. |
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Melbguy1, thank you for informing us about the RST-38 board from AR. Does this board comes in standard size. Does ayonc cd-5s perfecty fits on it? Whta it retails for? Any dealer recommendation will be appreciated.
Thank you. |
Hi Jarraa, I am using an Acoustic Revive RST-38 board under my CD-5s. Although the CD-5s (like all Ayon products) is well isolated, being a tube component with moving parts it will benefit from further isolation. I didn't do back to back comparisons with and without the AR board, but I sense there is greater transparency, and a smoother more organic sound with the RST-38 board. It is really unique in that rather than using inferior layers of granite, glass or composite materials, AR are using granules of natural crystal to achieve opposing goals. Ie: reduced distortion/noise & higher resolution and warm, smooth, organic sound at the same time. Highly recommended! |
I currently have an Ayon Spirit III and have been dabbling in isolation. Any one of you running isolation platform/pucks with your Ayon and what sonic impact has it made, if any? Thanks!
assad |
DH, thanks for sharing your thoughts on server-based music. I'll read up on your suggestions. When I eventually archive my cd's, I favor using a high end server connected via SPDIF like Gammajo which gives you the benefit of native 24/192 resolution. No need for a USB update! |
03-05-12: Denon1,
Ayon have been around long enough, and in particular have invested a lot in product development which has enabled them to earn a loyal customer base, albeit smaller than icons like Pass or ARC. Ayon have no plans for a CD-6 or something like that. Please understand the CD-5s is already at the limit. However Ayon have just released a new dedicated transport (CD-T) in the last week to compliment the Skylla 2 dac. Wish I had the space, that combination should sound wonderful! |
Gammajo, I don't believe the new USB board should be offered free to existing CD-5s owners. It is not a critical component in the player & remember Ayon spent more than a year developing just the own Windows 7 software for the USB driver alone. My own view which I expressed to Gerhard is that the cost to existing 5s owners should be ameliorated as much as possible however. |
Skip the 6 and wait for the 7. |
Melbguy1, thank you for the update. I agree with your observations, Ayon should consider the fact that the Ayon just establishing itself in the market and does not have loyal base and brainwashed by marketing and dealers buyers yet as say Esoteric or DCS. But what do you think ayon cd-6 may have that will elevate its performance from ayon cd-5s? Separate power supply? |
Drat. Perhaps you should pressure him to offer it free to previous owners. You seem to have his ear. |
I already get 24/192 from a Wavelength Wavelink HS box from my MacBookAir computers and it sounds pretty damn good. I've also begun to use a Weiss INT202 Firewire interface for my Mini.
Not all USB implementations are created equal, despite a 24/192 moniker.
I don't think this upgrade is a "must do" the way the analog preamp volume control and analog inputs were from the 5 to 5S though I think Ayon should be mindful of their loyal customers' tolerance for these continual cycles :)
I myself moved from a CD2S used to a CD5S new.
I have moved the CD5S from my main system which is a combo HT/2 channel setup and will partner it with a Plinius SA-Reference Class A power amp and a pair of Australian made Lenehan ML2 Reference speakers. |
