Audiozen, or should I call you the Czar, I am sure the Marten M Amps sound great, Oh wait I never heard them yet so now I am talking like you. OK, what I mean is I expect them to perform well, and they should at 45,000 a pair regardless the brand. I respect the Marten brand.
As far as the Veritas it is VERY obvious that you have a real bad case of AGENDA.
Merrill is not the only OEM that does not want others to know what they have done to their product or allow inside shots.
And I can assure you it is not just the a case and the two stock modules and nothing else done.
Do not ask me as I do not know the details. But I do know there is more to it.
You mention how the Marten is so heavy and infer that the Veritas is not and so because of that it is inferior. But then by that would not the D-Sonic be so.
Again you want your cake and eat too.
Look, in the world of Audiophile you can not always compare apples to apples anymore.
I think it is most telling that you make most of these statements as fact or as first hand experience but in almost all the cases you have NOT actually heard what ever you praise or put dawn.
Sorry but you can not hear specifications and technology on paper. Too many times the best on paper did not sound the best upon actually hearing it. It still must convey the emotion of the music.
Lets call a truce. You make no more disparaging remarks about the Veritas or Father, oops, Pope Guido and I. I will then have no reason to correct your statements.
But seriously lets try and move on from here, OK. |
Mcbuddah, please take as long a post as you need to describe your impressions of any equipment. Please ignore the talking head/s.
Thank you for the update. Please give us more once you have additional time hearing them in a stable system. Also can you give us what your system is made up of.
Looking foreword to an unbiased impression from someone who has ACTUALLY HEARD them. |
McBuddah, you got the stage and my attention at a minimum. :^)
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Hifial..The Veritas amps are a rip off for what they cost. Period! You get just over four pounds of Ncore product in each mono block. Merrill does not make available at all interior shots of his amps. He wants you to ignore whats behind the curtain. The Marten M amps designed by Bostrom are in a completely different league. Each mono block weighs 100 pounds due to their massive transformers and large capacitor banks combined with the most advanced Class-D technology on the market. Patrik Bostrom is a force to be reckoned with and its just a matter of time that Audiophiles will recognize that he is on top of the Class-D game globally. |
Audiozen, there you go again.
If Guido is the "Pope" then you must be "King Henry VIII"!
No one here is following your "proclamations".
You make no sense with your statements that D-sonic is the best, because it uses two different class d tech. Are they both the best? OK, lets say it is the one in the Marten amps. I quote you "the world's finest Class D amp, the M amp from Marten at $45K a pair." Oh, ONLY $45,000 a PAIR. Is that all. Was it not you who ridiculed the Veritas and the Mola-Mola for being SO expensive. That is not a question.
You seem to want your cake and eat it too.
Why are you attacking Guido. He has said he would like to hear the D-Sonic amps sometime.
Is It because you are afraid of him comparing them and speaking the truth of what he hears. That is sure the way it is coming across.
I also would like to hear the D-Sonic sometime. As others. I have heard so far, the DAC, Spectron, ARC, Bel Canto, Mola-Mola, Veritas, DIY NC400 and a few more.
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I have been meaning to put up another chapter in my continuing evaluation of the M2-600 D-Sonic mono amps I put into play back in January. While originally a long-shot purchase after the sudden death of a well-loved pair of Atma-Sphere early 90's vinage OTLs. While I wish I could have finished by now, the project has encountered so many issues that I have not been able to keep the rest of my system stable long enough for any kind of meaningful comparison.
To date, I have written several installments concerning changes I have had to make to either my system or record-playing pre-processes in order to get the best out of them. Many of these changes were made in response to the amps' extreme accuracy and transparency spotlighting upstream conditions that had previously been below my threshold of tolerance, if not notice with the other amps. I have not yet begun to describe how they really sound with different musical selections. Nor have I addressed sound-staging or imaging abilities except for early impressions. Neither timbre nor frequency fidelity and extention have been reported yet. I still don't know if I will keep them, but now that I have stopped making changes to my system, I can soon decide.
I would like to continue to add to his thread but I am concerned I, too, may be attacked for the length of my posts. I know that I do tend to go on at times, but I am not so skilled a writer in the ways of imparting a lot of information with few enough words to satisfy certain other conributors' need for brevity.
Perhaps those who are made offended, angered, disgusted, sickened, challenged, or scared by longer postings could just look away or click 'back' on their browsers when they see so much text. But, please don't start attacking others. I really appreciate the time and effort Guido makes when trying to describe the indescribable to the rest of us. I have not found a dealer I can trust since Salon I Audio closed ten years ago. I was spoiled rotten by the owner for so long I never cared to do much of my own research before buying any equipment. Now, all I have is the internet, and I have sometimes spent hundreds of hours reading about components before purchase. I don't recall too making many bad decisions in life based on too much information.
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Would like to hear more impressions from those who own or have heard more of these newer Class D amps.
The huge price range for amps built around the same common core modules is an interesting thing in of itself. |
Thank you Audiozen for encouraging me to contain the volume of my writing output... As you kindly point out, in quasi Zdanovian censoring zeal, there is no need for me to be expansive... I could be mercifully telegraphic instead,... If I enjoyed that form of terseness, of course, so to spare your limited patience. Unfortunately, I do not tend to the epigrammatic, but much prefer to freely share with my friends what I am excited about, and have experienced first hand, or at least I have learned from primary sources... Hence you might sadly expect my future scribblings to be comparably detailed and similarly tedius.
AudioPax vobiscum!
Papa Aloysius XXIV
(a.k.a. Guido) |
Pope Guido..no need to write a long winded book every time you post a reply. Phew! We all know your a reviewer of sorts. Eric Lichte with Stereophile did a report on the Marten M amps last winter after hearing them and stated they sound like very powerful tube amps and have the voice of Class A solid state amps. Regarding D-Sonic, I mentioned earlier that Dennis Deacon told me in conversation that his top amp is a Pascal and his M3-600M's are Abletec's. He only admitted this after I emailed him pics of the amps with the tops off disclosing the word Abletec stamped on the circuit board and matching the pics to the models on the Pascal and Abletec sites. |
Gents, while Audiozen's humor can sometimes feel like a runaway freight train filled with "red herrings"... Let us continue this fun thread cheerily without excesses "ad hominem"... Hence, let us abandon references to cephalotropic procedures... as well as any potentially slanderous sillyness.... Or jesty pulling of Audiozenic legs on my part *grins!*
Now returning to our previously scheduled programming....
I have not read the review on the Pulk mentioned by Audiozen... Audiozen, if you can post the URL, I definitely will read it. From your remarks about it, it is clear that the reviewer has done at least one thing very right... He used the amps for 4 full months before offering final findings... Far too many audiophiles are hopelessly impatient, and give final findings well before a component has stabilized... And trust me... class D devices are real bears to reach the points where they deliver their very best.
To the best of my knowledge, there are currently three readily available sources of Abletech in the US, neither of which I have listened to... One of them being D-Sonics, on selected amps... The problem is that this manufacturer does not disclose whether he is using Abletech, Pascal, or anything else... The consumer must try to guess by matching power/current specs on the D-Sonic web site with AbleTech and Pascal specs and try to make a best guess... or find somewhere some pics that reveal the amp's internals.
The other source of Abletech amps seems to be TEAC/Esoteric with some of their entry-level amps... But here is the proverbial fly in the ointment... TEAC/Esoteric seems to be in transition... They seem to have transfered their Esoteric and possibly other consumer lines to the Integra division of Onkyo as of early October... TEAC/Esoteric was absent from RMAF, and I have no idea what Onkyo will be doing with these brands.
Marten amps have only token presence in the US at this time... There exists a distributor in California who appears to have marginal knowledge about the product, with one known customer in Southern CA... No I have not heard the amp, ence no conjectures nor comments about performance.
Now moving onto Pascal... Once again, there are reasons to believe that D-Sonics uses Pascal in some devices... But D-Sonic will neither confirm nor deny... Reminds me of Caspar Weinberger. I have not heard the amp(s)... Hence no findings.
Of higher price are the new Rowland M525 bridgeable amp at $4500 per chassis, and the Rowland Continuum S2 integrated selling in the $9K region. I have not heard M525, but listened several times to Continuum S2 during RMAF... Wonderful device for resolution and musicality... Leagues above the original Continuums based on ICEpower... But not having had Continuum S2 in my system, I cannot tell how its sound would compare to any Ncore amps... Let alone Abletech, which I have not heard at all.
And now Ncore NC1200 and derivates... besides the $12K Merrill Veritas monos that I have already reviewed, there are several other amplification systems that have adopted various forms of Ncore NC1200-based technology...
Mola-Mola Kaluga... To be released by CES 2014. $15.9K monoblocks... Heard at RMAF driving YG speakers... Extremely resolving and musical. Fascinating devices... Worth while examining in detail. I have created an entire new thread on these... See:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1382836646&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocoronasted
Rowland M825 stereo ($32K) and M925 monos ($58K)(. Far from being basic implementations of NC1200, these are no holds barred assaults to what is possible by strting with Ncore technology in the output stage and surrounding them with state of the art I/O, power management, and power regulation. M925 is my own reference amp and it does sound amazing... I keep a diary of sort on Audiogon about my experience with it. See:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1369518273&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
Audience WavePower appears to be a promising design, and is in preproduction... Like the Rowland designs, it utilizes transformer coupling in the input stages ($18K)... Sorry I have not heard it yet.
ATSAH by Acoustic Imagery in the UK... THe least expensive of NCORE amps at $9K... I have not heard it yet and have no first hand information about internals, hence... I am not qualified to comment.
Bel Canto uses custom modules that are derived from Ncore NC1200 in its new Black System... Very nice sound and worth examining... Still in preproduction I believe... Sorry I do not remember the exact price, but it is a very unique combination of amplification and signal processing that addresses the market well above $20K
Grimm Audio showcased at RMAF its new powered speakers... Each speaker is powered by three Ncore-derived modules... Interesting... But a little peaky in their suite... I suspect the speakers may have been just off the factory floor.
Bottomline... prices for new class D amplification appears to range from under $1K to almost $60K... My general impression is that what I heard from Ncore and Pascal this far tends for me to be musically and sonically preferable to what I usually hear from classic class A, class A/B, old class D, or tube designs... But there is a lot that I have not heard yet.
G. |
Oh..did I upset the Pope Guido minions out there? First hand experience?..Its just as relevant to read on other Audiophile websites/forums of private owner's of D-Sonic amps and their first hand experiences with the amps.. I have read many threads on other sites besides 'Gon of D-Sonic owner's using Bostrom's Abletec amps and the reads are very positive. You should take the time to explore the other forums instead of just relying on threads on Audiogon. |
"Zen still hasn't recovered from his full frontal lobotomy."
And I'm certain that ALL of us would prefer a "bottle in front of me to a frontal lobotomy..."
Apologies to Tom Waits and/or Dorothy Parker...
-RW- |
Zen still hasn't recovered from his full frontal lobotomy. |
Correction..Merrill's offer to me was in November 2012... |
Aaahh...Pope Guido..excuse me your Eminence for not genuflecting before I enter your apartment at the Vatican. You are an easy set up..I knew you would be the first to reply as a response to my recent post..you follow me around like a lost hound dog with nothing better to do..did you run out of steam over your orgasm's with the Merrill Veritas amps?..I'm curious how much money your taking under the table from Merrill since he offered me $100.00 per customer I would bring to him as a private lead back in November 2011..I rejected his offer since I preserve my self dignity..after all, he has to survive at any cost..part of the AUDIO MATRIX which you ardently defend... |
Audiozen I know you mean well. What is your first hand experience with D-Sonic amps? How about someone who actually has or heard these amps, sonically compare or or give their impressions. |
Uhrn Audiozen, still living vicariously? Still no first hand findings?
Saluti, G. |
Luigy39..Bare in mind that you are dealing with the Audio snobs who wouldn't waste their time taking seriously a Class D amp unless it costs $5K or more. These are the numb nuts that live in the "AUDIO MATRIX". Did they take the red pill or the blue pill? They will always fight very hard to defend the iconic Audio establishment brands and to make certain the big business Audio component machine stays in tact. Its the only way they can survive as commercial Audiophiles. I read a recent Audiophile's review on the Polk Forum site who purchased the D-Sonic M3-600M's this year and he was blown away after he burned them in for a month and played them through his KEF speakers. As I already indicated, the M3-600M's are Abletec amps designed by the world leader in Class D technology, Patrik Bostrom of Sweden. Bostrom is well known for designing the world's finest Class D amp, the M amp from Marten at $45K a pair. Just buy the M3-600M's. They are a steal for what they do and you can't go wrong at $1950.00 a pair. Give Dennis a call. |
It's been more than a month since this thread suffered a tragic death. I'm very interested in the D-sonic amps and it would be nice to hear back from those who have had these amps for a while now. |
I checked with US distributors about RMAF presence of Mola-Mola and Marten...
Mola-Mola Kaluga will be shown by On A Higher Note in Long's Peak on the mezanine level.
Sound Advice will not participate, and the Marten M amp is likely to be absent from the show.
G. |
"Jdec... Educate yourself and go on the Marten website and read the PDF brochure on the M-Amp and the advanced design technology by Patrik Bostrom thats applied in the amp." (Audiozen)
Well, I just read the Martin pdf brochure on the m-amps, and it does not "educate" that much, it' s just the typical marketing on a brief overview, what every amplifier maker states in a few lines about the technical wonders of their products. If that's your kind of self education Audiozen, good for you.
Regards. |
Its Marten..not Martin..there is a clear distinction between performance and price point..well executed designs with higher performance levels require much higher quality, more expensive parts with much lower defect rates which achieves greater performance levels..its called High End.. |
Audiozen, as we live in a world of audiophilic uncertainty, where the relationship between performance and pricepoint is not always clear, I tend to shy away from aprioristic "more than likely" based on specs alone.
If Mola-Mola Kaluga and Martin make it to RMAF, I might be able to listen to them and at least get a vague idea of what they do for living.
In general, I leave trouncing to the world of contact sports.
G. |
Deadlyvj..I checked out the Spec integrated. Its interior pics and spec sheet are impressive. Its too bad the power output is on the low side. The only other company that currently appears to put out a first class integrated is Jeff Rowland and his Continuum S2 with the Pascal amplifier with a higher power output. Its just a matter of time that other companies will produce high quality, high powered Class D integrated amps besides the low budget ones currently on the market. |
Thats your perspective...not mine. But more than likely it would trounce the Mola-Mola, and it better for $30K more. |
Audiozen, if I ever worked on an article project on Mola-Mola Kaluga, or an article project on the Martin amp, I would examine each device on its own merits. There will be no trouncing of any kind, one way or another.
It is worth pointing out that power supply capacity is a useful datapoint, but all by itself it is not sufficient to guestimate the overall sonic behavior/performance of a device.
G. |
Humm.....
How about SPEC corp RSA-F3EX from Japan?
Seems like an interesting product? |
Jdec..I neglected to mention the Marten amps do not use the ALC-1000 modules but a superior design thats exclusive to the M-Amp, even though the ALC-1000 has a similar design technology under the hood. Same applies to Bruno Putzeys Mola-Mola amp, which does not use the Ncore NC-1200, but a superior design derived from the 1200. What would really be the cats meow is for Guido to get his hands on the M-amp and the Mola-Mola, and compare the two designs of the Class D Kings. I suspect the M-Amp would trounce the Mola-Mola given its large transformer and massive power supply at 190,000 microfarads per mono block, and its highly advanced design technology described on the Marten website.
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Thank you Strateahed, my current reference amp is the rowland M925 monoblock, which was not factored in the Veritas article. Conversely, In the Veritas review, I make minor mention of the M312 stereo, which was my reference in some past.
G. |
Old news. I already posted that information on September 3rd regarding Etal Group AB of Sweden buying Abletec earlier this year. |
All, in case anyone were interested, here is the press release announcing Abletec's sale of its audio business to Etal Group. Please note that the url is slightly misleading... The title/H1 of the actual page is:
Abletec - Sale of Abletec Audio Business
http://www.abletec.com/news/abletec-acquires-anaview-ab
BTW Audiozen, when you offer lists of recommended readings, it would be helpful if you included appropriate URLs.
G. |
Patrik Bostrom has filed six patents in the U.S. patent office on his new Class D designs between March 2011 and December 2012. |
Jdec..Erick Lichte with Sterophile listened to the amps in early 2011 and came away immensely impressed describing them as sounding like a very powerful rich tube amplifier with the voicing of a Class A amp. Educate yourself and go on the Marten website and read the PDF brochure on the M-Amp and the advanced design technology by Patrik Bostrom thats applied in the amp. |
Guido, between this thread and a couple of others, I get a sense that you are not only technically astute, but also you've been the voice of reason in many of these discussions. That said, have you tried to get a couple of these D-Sonic amps in for a review? Please forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere.
You did a very nice review of the Veritas amps compared to your Rowland reference. Thanks for that. Rather than debating the relative superiority of this or that design/approach, or who manufacturers or patented what ... I believe many of us would benefit from comparisons based on actual listening sessions. One would think Dennis Deacon (D-SONIC) would welcome such an approach - regardless of where his modules are sourced and/or assembled. After all, the same folks that like to scream "buy 100% American" will drive their Toyota down to the Apple Store. Just my 2 cents. |
The Mark Levinson No53 class d monoblocks are only $50,000/pair. |
Hey they are only $45,000 so they sure as hell better be |
"As I recently posted, Patrik Bostrom designed the worlds finest Class D amplifier with Leif Olofsson, the Marten M-Amp in Sweden." (Audiozen)
The "world's finest class d amplifier"?
How can you be that sure if you have not heard them?
(I know, you are not going to answer :-) |
As I recently posted, Patrik Bostrom designed the worlds finest Class D amplifier with Leif Olofsson, the Marten M-Amp in Sweden. If anyone wants to take the time to check out the genius of Patrik Bostrom, go to the Marten home page and click on the PDF download brochure for the M-Amp which describes in depth innovative details of the advanced technologies invented by Bostrom that reveals his impeccable shear wizardry. An excellent read. |
Mcbuddah..the Abltec amps in your M3 600M's use a new technology designed by Patrik Bostrom that utilizes a patented switching technique called phase shift modulation instead of pulse width modulation. Pascal also uses a new patented technology designed by their technical engineer Jesper Hansen called UMAC Class D. Bruno Putzeys with Ncore, Patrik Bostrom with Abletec, and Jesper Hansen with Pascal, have all designed the newest Class D technologies on the market that puts these guys as the current leader's of the newest Class D innovations. I wouldn't worry about your amps, they are excellent designs. |
McB,
I find my Class D amps to be very revealing of what it is fed. Definitely fertile ground on which to tweak! Thanks for the details. |
Styxtrekr, This is probably more detail than you asked for, but am convinced that environment is at least as important as inheritance in audio systems, and that other readers may want more depth. I am using a Classe DR-6 as a linestage. It runs to the amps in balanced mode currently through StarSound's Sonoran Plateau interconnects. The phono stage is a lozenge-shaped tube unit from a small US company called Thor and runs single-ended through Siltech cables that have been upgraded with Xhadow connectors. Both preamps take PS Audio regenerated power from Synergistics Tesla-treated power cords. The Classe is on full-time but tube-life concerns require the Thor is switched off until needed. Both use AMR Gold fuses.
Support for the components is as follows:
1. The Thor with its separate round power supply gave me fits when first installing the D-Sonics. I had been using Audio Advisors' Spiked, 3 shelf MDF and steel tube Euro racks behind each speaker with the amp on top, Thor in the middle with its power supply on the bottom on one side. The other amp rack held the Classe power supply on the bottom shelf. The middle shelf was empty. All footers were factory stock rubber feet except the main body Thor that had factory-installed Star Points brass cones. This arrangement had served me well for more than 10 years with various lesser cable combinations and 3 different turntables without any noise problems. Inserting the D-Sonics into the same vertical stack as the Thor and its power supply resulted in low-level broadcast of professional baseball games through the speaker on the side nearest the Thor. Moving it to the other channel resulted in the broadcast moving to that side. Sorting this mess out caused me to do some serious research on RF interference, but easily cured by physical placement. I tossed the racks and drafted a pair of knee-high granite end-tables into service for the amps and a beefy rock-maple 3-leg round stool about 6" taller than the end-tables allowed me enough space to separate it from the amp until the ball-game went away. Today, the stool and granite tables have been modified with Herbie's dots and all legs have been threaded to hold stainless steel carpet piercing spikes. While the top of the stool is solid maple and could serve well as a vibration sink, the Thor seemed over-sensitive to RF interference, so I ordered a custom 18" x 4" round maple platform and mapleshade isoblocks. I removed the brass points from the Thor and installed them on its power supply, which now resides on its own 15" x 2" maple platform on a built-in hutch two feet behind and four feet away from the nearest amp. The Thor currently sits on Eden Sound TerraStone footers.
2. The classe is on the center shelf of an early VPI TNT stand. Like all things VPI, it is massive and rigid 4" steel tube legs welded together with steel bars that double as shelves. each leg holds up 25 pounds of lead shot and sand. The bottom of each leg is a welded steel plate threaded for footers. The main rack, fully loaded, probably weighs more than 350 pounds. I am currently using Mapleshade threaded carpet-piercing brass footers. The bottom shelf now supports a PS Audio PPP on its own 18" x 20" x 4" maple platform. The Classe is relatively tall as preamps go, limiting me to only a 2" tall plaform without interfering with the controls. Both Classe and PPP are on Herbie's roller and cup footers. The stand came originally with a beautiful black acrylic top sized for a TNT. At 27" x 21" x 1", it seemed a bit rubbery under the more massive SSM that I have now, so I replaced that with a 4" maple platform of the same dimensions. The original top was threaded for pointed set-screws to couple it to each leg in the base. I judged this to be a point where the platform should be decoupled from the base, so I put the new one on four heavy-duty Mapleshade blocks.
3. I installed Adonis threaded brass points into the old top shelf to spike it to the floor through the carpet and it now supports a pair of 18 x 12 x 3" maple platforms so the Classe power supply and the VPI SDS can have their own isolation platforms, complete with brass footers and isoblocks. The shelf also supports a rock maple vanity seat decoupled by Herbie's Dots. This gives a good foundation to another 20" x 16" x 3" maple platform for the CD player.
4. Future plans include floor jacks in the basement under the main rack and I think I want to buy Revelation Audio silver umbilical cords on both preamps. |
I recall looking at specs on line for either newer pascal or abletec (do not rremember which) and being impressed at the significantly higher switching frequency specified compared to "prior" generation Class D, like most Icepower amps out there currently, including my Bel Canto Ref 1000m monoblocks. That to me signaled technical progress that enabled sonic improvements, especially in the higher frequency treble range if done "right". I would expect good results due to technical progres if done right, so am interested to audition these newer products at some point, especially the more affordable ones. |
McBuddah would you tell us what preamp you are using? thanks |
Please explain why the Abeltek and Pascal amps are technically superior to ncore because looking at their specs, I don't see it... |
I was shocked to learn this weekend that the M2-600Ms do not have the same Pascal technology that I had thought I bought based on the pictures in the 6 Moons review of their big brother. When I talked to Dennis before purchase, he did not mention that they were from different designs. Had I known these use Abletec cores, I probably would not have bought them at all, such is the power of reviews. Fortunately for me, the amps that I have in my house in my system have raised the musical performance bar so high that I can't even get mad. Seriously, I feel thankful and even a bit lucky that I have procrastinated so long in removing the covers to peek inside until today. Had I opened them in January when they arrived, I would have seen the mismatch to the photos and the only thing I would be able to write about firsthand would be to describe how well Dennis Deacon's 30 day return period was honored and the maturing of my system and management procedures probably never would have taken place. Damn me for a heretic in these pages if you must, but I am starting to think that the music they make is more important than who designed the cores. |
Guido, I find my self still unable to answer both questions due to the many significant changes I made to my system due to the installation of these superb little amps. I also reversed my own thinking on the priority and value of a serious, planned, methodological approach to EMI/RF control that was triggered by a surprisingly large and unexpected improvement while engaged in an experiment I had devised to prove to myself that isolation platforms were bunk. I had bought the footers for my TV system's main speakers. I had been intrigued mostly by the beauty of Maple platforms, but figured I had the rack & support concerns covered. Going from such a beginning to giving each box its own 2-4" maple platform complete with decoupling (isoblocks) under each and with coupling provided by Herbie's balls, Mapleshade micro-points and a few exotic material cones made for such a huge improvement in so many ways that I could no longer assign credit or blame to any other components, especially my previous amps that, probably too, would have sounded better in a more mature system.
Further clouding the issue of break-in improvement was my discovery of the value of VTA setting for each album, which I had never quite heard in any previous configuration, even when on-the-fly setting was supported by the arm. Before these amps, I was certain that visually leveling the arm/cart was good enough. Don't worry, be happy. With these amps, I can dial in the perfect height in about 3 or 4 trials while playing many kinds of music. Besides spotlighting the VTA settings, it also makes other arm geometry adjustments results more audible as well, much to the further evolution of my system during the first 1000 hours on the amps. It seems to me that there is some controversy about the value and procedures to set anti-skate or whether to even try on VPI arms. Since I had started to trust my own ears instead of solely on others' experiences, I decided to test it by deactivating it on my JMW by flipping up the little weight bar. After some hours of listening, I forgot about the rarely considered non-sonic benefit of anti-skate control - namely control of wide ranging stylus movement during high-level play of seriously wide bass grooves near the center of the record. I was rudely reminded of this property when I lost all self-control and juiced the volume much higher than I usually listen while playing Telarc's 1812 Overture. So began the separation of voice-coil from cone on one of my vintage Snell's 20 woofers. It took about 6 weeks to locate a sonically identical new pair that had a slightly larger frame diameter, requiring a trip to the speaker shop to have the existing holes counterbored 1/8" larger. While in the shop, they were given a checkup that discovered some separation of diaphragm from surrounds on my midranges. These were disassembled and reglued for all 4 drivers. While it was in the shop, Music Direct offered a few sets of Cardas Patented Binding post demos for half price, so I had them installed. While setting up the speakers again, I accidentally ripped the WBT plug from an early set of Siltech gold and silver interconnects I had been using between the TT and phono stage. The guys at the speaker shop seemed talented enough to trust with a repair, so I sent away for a cryo version of the Xhadow all silver ends and had those installed.
As if these weren't enough confounding variables to confuse any attempt at preserving the old setup for comparison, I also discovered the benefits of anti-static treatment after deciding to challenge Pierre's claims that mapleshde's $40 brush was really better than anything else on the market. It is so fine and versatile that I even use it on the stylus for every side I play - not just the records. When used in conjunction with a record vacuum, the improvement to the low-level retrieval is almost like replacing old records with brand new. while it might seem like a good thing to have all your records sound nearly new after even 50 years, all comparisons die when considering that every record was seriously degraded while listening to both the tube amps and the less broken-in D-Sonics.
The best I can do offer now is that by 300 hours, the amps had broken in enough to be taken seriously as indicators of overall system strengths and weaknesses. By the time several of these weaknesses had been addressed, they fit in very well and do just about everything extremely well. I concentrated on highlighting the effects their high transparency and ease have had on showing me important defects in my system and processes, but this is only one characteristic of this amp that exceeds expectations. This is not a one trick pony. I expect to add a posting or two to describe their musicality, bass quality, and soundstage characteristics as well as a few comparisons of how the system itself sounds when switching them off to listen to headphones when played through an Eddie Current triode amp with LCD-s phones. If i can find a way to repair the Atma-Spheres for less that their resale value (currently around $3k), I will probably do a comparison then, but I suspect that I would probably opt to keep the D-Sonics and sell the OTLs. |
Audiozen, (and I use that pharse lightly), I quote you.
"12-19-12: Audiozen
The core problem with many Class D amps on the market such as Bel Canto, Nuforce, Red Dragon, Hypex, CIA, Wyred4Sound
and other light weight, cool running switching designs is that they are wall dependent, needing to rely on dedicated 15 or 20 amp a.c. lines since they lack large power supplies from a large bank of capacitors found in A and A/B
amps which sound better for that reason."
"If you want the best musical performance from a class D amp as the DS450M, don't waste your time on the 12 to 18 pound class D amps that will never provide the large current reserves since they lack large capacitor banks which is critically necessary to get the best performance from a full range speaker."
So, from your "expert opinion" the D-sonic can not possible sound great because it is "light weight", etc.
Several times I have asked if you EVER have heard the DS450M and you never answer. So if you have never heard it HOW can you say it sounds better then the others. And DO NOT say because of the tech and/or specs. And regardless according to you the D-sonic sounds great.
The D-sonic may sound very good, maybe even great. I can not give an OPINION as I have not heard it yet.
But I have heard the DS450M and can say IMHO it does not sound as good as the DAC, Spectron, Mola-Mola and the Veritas Amps. I would even say that the Arion Amps sound better. |
Audiozen, I can no longer find the Abletec web site:
http://www.abletec.com/
Any ideas?
G. |
edit.."earlier this year"... |
Mapman...yes, they are Abletec amps designed by Patrik Bostrom. When I first brought attention to Abletec and Pascal months ago, most on this thread including Guido never heard of these brands. During the past several months I have read at least five other reviews on Forums by owners who purchased these amps with the same impressions. In a Euro high tech magazine interview I read awhile back with Patrik Bostrom, he explained he never liked the sound of Class D amps and his goal was to design an amp that sounds and performs like the best AB amps available. He has designed at least four new circuit technologies that have patents pending. I consider Patrik at the forefront of Class D engineering and rate him #1 and Bruno Putzeys #2. Bostrom is younger than Bruno and is a rising star as a Class D design engineer. The amps are manufactured in China by Swedish company, The Etal Group, who bought Abletec earlier this and work very closely with Patrik. |
