audiophiles are born, not made. that's my take. It's an inborn need to search for better sound and eventually possess it. It's the notion that rack systems and Ipods don't cut it and so begins the journey. Not everyone has this inside of them. |
Thank you. That's what I was getting at. China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, even India...all crazy about hi-fi and high end audio. It's almost fully ingrained into their cultures its that popular. There's Europe too, but not as much. |
I'm still waiting on that chance encounter of meeting or running into a fellow audiophile by accident Don't worry, they are out there. I formed the LVAC (Las Vegas Audio Club) about a year ago and at the moment we're not real big in numbers (about 13-14 people) but the camaraderie is great. I didn't think it would go anywhere, but it has. I am surprised at this. For more info, check out the audio clubs section here under "Las Vegas." And check out our blog: lavegasaudioclub.blogspot.com Thanks! |
it surprises me when I read about boorish behavior in the shops. You'd think they'd know better by now. True. And they're probably trapped in their own little world, but I can't say for sure... |
Keep in mind that this is primarily a North American problem. And it's due to a number of factors, most of which have already been addressed here. However, audio (and high end audio) is thriving elsewhere in the world, especially in the Far East! |
And most of the Sony, Marantz, Pioneer, Denon, etc. that is sold here is Chinese (or Malaysian like most of Onkyo, which is better to me) made! I don't think Japanese high end like Accuphase and Luxman is all that big here in the US, I could be wrong though... |
Yes I know. I was simply stating the facts. I'll be more than happy to knock it off. :D But anyway, yeah that's very interesting. Why do you think that is? Because Americans have lower standards of quality, or could it be Americans are obsessed with low prices and think they can get stereo equipment what it cost 40 years ago...which in a few cases is true, but the quality is not there, imo. |
I meant to say "high quality stereo equipment." Thanks. |
maybe people will be more apt to get high and listen to pink floyd and seek better stereos like we have. We can only hope! lol. Stranger things have happened... |
In regard to standards of quality, mid-fi and hi-fi have improved since I discovered audio in the early 80's (except for speakers). So I'd have to say standards aren't lower. We tend to get more fidelity for the money. In some cases, yes. But what I see is poorer build quality and parts quality compared to the 70s and 80s, even the 90s on low end and mid-fi gear. And that's what most people can afford, really. Also, that's what most people know about. I don't even think they know about high end audio even existing. I certainly didn't know until I was 15-16 years old back in the mid 80s. |
Well, there's always exceptions to the rule. Good point. I don't really disagree with you there. |
Ok, I would agree there as well. |
Kids today don't want to fuss and fight over mm or mc or this power cord or that philosophy how to achieve the best sound i.e. tubes or s.s. Meaning what? |
I see your point Frogman, thanks for that. I basically agree with it as well. |
I like many hear am a sucker for good sound, so I find high end audio interesting. What better way to waste time than talking about what is high end or not. :^) I do too! I've been into high end audio since the mid 80s when I was a teenager. Sure, why not. It's at least constructive instead of destructive behavior. :D |
That's really cool, Jafox. But how many of these people in their 20s and 30s are just looking at the equipment instead of buying? That's the $64000 question! |
True, there's tire kickers of all ages really. But, I am still curious to know if the 20 and 30 somethings are actually buying the equipment, or are just aspiring to. If they're not, that doesn't help the industry too much. Another argument is, just by looking at the you tube posts on videos regarding high end, is that most of the younger crowd doesn't seem to be interested in the concept of audiophilia. Matter of fact, they tend to go with the flat earth "all amps sound the same" objectivists. Which is really sad. Sure, there is imo, a lot of snake oil in this hobby, but there are actual licensed pro engineers that are designing and making high end components. To discredit all of high end as hogwash is really selling yourself short. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but that's what I see around me. Just my $0.02. |
Food for thought, there Macrojack. However, I would prefer to remain optimistic to a point. The high end is slowly going up the creek without a paddle, but hopefully, hopefully this will turn around somewhat. I will continue to support and buy from companies who are not snake oil, and built and/or designed by licensed professional engineers. Accuphase, McIntosh, JBL, Bryston, Luxman, and to a lesser extent Yamaha and Onkyo come to mind. |
I concur. I always say most audiophiles are born, not made. It a pursuit of the finer things in life, and to hear music they way it's supposed to sound. Of course this applies more to acoustic rather than electronic music, but electronic music can sound quite good on a high end system. Not really for serious listening, but it's a lot of fun listening to a hard rock album on a killer system. |
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Marijuana played an enormous role in the birth of hi-end audio Really. How so? and why. Thanks. |
You make the analogy of seeking ever greater audio realism with a drug users endlessly chasing a better high. There's a great deal of truth in that analogy I think. I think so too. Having never used drugs, although I have abused alcohol in the past and I used to smoke, my number 1 "drug" of choice is and was music. More audio realism gets you closer to the actual performance, imo. That's what I'm in this for; to get a thrill out of a musical event happenning right in my listening room. To get as close as possible to a band playing in front of you. I think that's the general idea of high end audio; to approximate the original performance. Personally, I'll never be fooled that I have a band in front of me, but you can get close, imo. |
At best I'm trying to recreate the sound in the mastering studio which may or may not have a basis in real time musician performing. I would agree with that. However, to get the sound of the master tape, you need the master tape. Everything else is a copy. On the other hand, there's excellent copies out there, like very first pressings, white label promos, etc. Perhaps with mostly imperfect recordings and let's face it, there's no such thing as perfect equipment, quite a few audiophiles are the proverbial cat trying to catch its own tail. I plead guilty to this as well. You really have to sit down and spare a moment to think what you're after in putting together an audio system. This stuff isn't cheap, as you know. |
...and expensive mistakes have been made. I am guilty of that too. |
Dave_72 you already know about expensive mistakes, I have made a few mistakes myself, not anymore. I have a problem giving advice to anyone who has just entered this hobby and what to recommend because it will take a few years of trial and error to get a grip on what sounds good for yourself. It was of little consequence to try different products over time because it was very easy to turn gear over on Audiogon at the time, so very few dollars were lost, I don't think it is that easy now. I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah, I don't mind giving advice, but I always say that "you have to go out and compare and contrast each set of equipment until you find the one that pleases you the most" With that caveat, I don't feel guilty about it. I would hope this avoids the trial and error thing, but maybe not. No, the resale value on this stuff has plummeted from what I see on this site and other sites that make up the used market. The manufacturers price very high which makes it a chore to recoup that money when one would like to sell. If you buy an ultra high end amp for $80k, you're gonna at least lose $20k on it if you sell. And this is stuff that has high resale value and demand such as FM Acoustics and MBL. Either way, that's losing a big chunk of change! |
However, I have no idea what the sound recording engineer actually recorded or how that person intended the recording to sound. So, I am using my judgement in listening to the recordings. But, it would be interesting to have the acutal recording engineer sit in one's home and listen to the playback of their actual recording and see and talk about their reaction. That would be interesting. I have been in live unamplified concerts in large venues in great seats and the music was unfocused, and I couldn't place the performers with my eyes closed. So, live unamplified music can also be the wrong metric. So, my point is that it depends on the intent and ear of the recording engineer, the venue, and most especially, what the listener is actually doing and what they want. Exactly, it's a guessing game. The sound we get out of our systems might be totally opposite of what the engineers and artists wanted. Like you, I go by the sound of real instruments and compare and contrast. Again, like I said in the old post of mine, we're listening to imperfect recordings for the most part, especially, and I hate to say this, rock and pop stuff. And let's not fool ourselves, no matter how much money you throw around, there's no such thing as an absolutely perfect system, imo. You can get pretty close however, at usually quite a chunk of change. However, there are more modest systems out there that can and have slayed the 6 figure "holy grail" rigs. In my opinion, the spending limit on an ultimate state of the art holy grail system (with discounts new or used stuff) should be around $50k, no more no less. Yes, that is crazy in real world terms, but isn't the high end more about aspirations more than reality? lol. |
