My 20 years old daughter is admirative of people who spend 50 OOO $ on something else than a big shiny car !
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Macrojack ''a man will pay $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs while a woman will pay $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need'' That is a somewhat surprising observation. Especially in this Crazy hobby. Could it be that men spent A TON OF MONEY for things we don't need? (including a lot of expensive toys that cost 5 times the price for only an incremental improvement over a more sensible or affordable piece of gear? (the infamous law of diminishing return!) Think about it... |
There is a traditionally sexist observation which states that a man will pay $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs while a woman will pay $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need. While I have seen many examples that support this comment, I can say that I see quite a few that contradict it. Buying tendencies seem to be more a product of personality type than gender. That said, I suppose there are certain personality traits that are fairly consistent along gender lines. So selling to anyone must be attuned to that individual's personal triggers rather than what's in their pants. These threads are full of anecdotes about guys who can buy anything being dissed at a hi-fi store because of the way they dressed or looked at a particular time. And they usually accompany complaints about the assumptions that must have been made. None of us like being rejected on the basis of appearance. We can go home and change clothes however. Women are dead at the door when they show up. It's not going to be easy to conceal a lady's gender, and I'm pretty certain she isn't going to want to just so she can hand some misogynist twit a few thousand dollars. |
Mrtennis, you say that physical differences are irrelevant to consumption ???.Mrtennis, you are only partly right. Men and women of course will react positively if not pressured. But there is a lot more to consider and there are many specifics that apply to only men and only women in order to attract them in buying a product. There is a world of neuro-buttons to be pushed in the ''switchbox'' above. The audio business does not escape this, and yes, I think the key is to DO treat men and women differently. This is not a question of prejudice at all, but closing in on your target market. If that target market is women (like stereolady) you can bet that a specific - and different than men's - approach to the audio market will yield better results. As for the 99% of the other audio shops out there - they will of course say that they cater as much to the women as men - I don't beleive it one second. They sure would like their business - but most don't have a clue as to how to do it. |
I too wish you luck. I really think you will have the best luck selling Meridian F80's to women. When I met my GF she had a boombox and that's all she really wants. She actually hates my system, wires, placment, etc, and I usually play it too loud for her. But offer a woman of means a compact and stylish system that is not outrageously priced and I think they will be interested. I have not heard the F80 but read it sounds fantastic. Another of my GF's friends spends tons of money on shoes, clothes, furnishing, etc. She recently bought a stereo for... get this... $150. Just the AC outlet many of use for our system (at least I do) cost close to that amount. So I think it will a tough sell unless a truly novel set of products or appreach is offered. Actually completely hidden in wall systems would probably be of interest to some women. A speaker manufacturer I get some of my HT speakers from custom makes speakers for Martha Stewart. She requests custom colors. So she's clearly an audiophile... among other things. |
Women are more into high quality electronics than they used to. Take my older sister for example, she just spent a sizeable chunk of her home renovation budget on a B&W 800 and Classe home theater setup. Another lady friend of mine was just telling me how she believes in spending more on electronics to get better quality like the new pair of headphones she got. Also didn't Hifi News just do a feature on a mother and daughter, about them setting up a top of the line PMC system in their listening room or something. I mean those speakers are so butt-ugly that I won't even allow them any where near my home. The times are really changing. |
i think the key to a successful audio business does not entail treating men or women differently. rather, if people are not pressured, left to browse and allowed to listen, both men and women will feel well served. after all, men and women are human beings. physical differences are irrelevant to consumption. |
From Stereolady's website: "I can tell you, even the most expensive systems probably cost less then the money most women throw at other stress relievers!" What are these other stress relievers? For all you lovely ladies reading this post: I used to think I was an expensive "stress reliever". Though, now, I suspect the opposite is true. I'm an expensive "stress generator"! And I'll bet that goes for a lot of these other guys, as well. (Especially, the ones with those stinky, obnoxious, cigar-smoky posts.) I'm not quite sure why you women put up with us. My theory is that men are like puppies, sloppy, not too bright, but oh-so-adorable, so goofy, so silly-sweet. Once you hold the right one in your arms, you just can't help but want to keep him and take him home. And, while he might not be house-broken, yet, you're just sure he'll learn, if you teach him right. . . Though most never really do learn to stop peeing on the floor, you can't help loving and keeping and caring for them, anyway. That way they get scampering-crazy when they see you. And, ooh, that way they wag their tails! (The good ones, anyway.) Sure, some run away. Some just get lost. But, you know they'd be lost without you. They get kind of smelly, if you don't make sure they get a bath. Many can barely feed themselves. They shed. (And, some, one day, shed, completely.) But, you'll love them till their teeth fall out and cry when they are gone. Me? Sometimes, I think I'm nothing but a nuisance. I wouldn't recommend myself to anyone. I should come with a disclaimer. I'm very lucky to be loved and to be able to give love, in return. We all want to be cared for. And, we all need someone to care about. Whether we know it, or not. (People who only care about themselves, eventually, don't care about anything at all.) I've looked at your site, StereoLady. Those are pretty good systems. And, yes, very pretty, too. Not as pretty as you are. But nice. I, still, don't know what those other stress relievers are, specifically for women, that exceed $88,000.00, though. A tour of Europe? A luxurious cruise? A bad night of Baccarat? However, if the Lifetime channel can stay on the air, even with all those crappy movies, why not a high-end site for women? I helped start a high-end store twenty-five years ago that catered as much to women as to men. Unheard of at the time. It's, still, there. And it, still, does. |
if you keep an open mind and consider each experience for what it is and do all of the analysis you can, you will make an intelligent decision in a stochastic world. generalizations often over simplify and lead to erroneous decisions. you ask "what else is there" ? the answere is confidence, after assessing all of the variables. in audio, confidence comes from auditioning a component in one's stereo system. all else is risk. |
Interesting marketing. Most women don't want to spend this kind of money on a stereo system - certainly not $70K on speakers alone. A niche market perhaps for successful career women who love home stereo or have husbands/boyfriends who are the ones who this is really aimed at. Unfortunately given the current economic times, that niche market will get even smaller. |
Hey again Mrtennis: You say: "generalizations based upon experience are usually incorrect. such generalizations are based upon induction. the results of induction can be disproven by one example, whereas the results of induction cannot be proven." All due respect, that's so bland and trite as to be useless. First of all, of course they can't be proven: but what can? Second of all, what else are you going to do? Develop opinions about what is likely to happen, or to be true of cases you haven't encountered, without appealing to experience? By what means then? Astrology? Ouiji board? Mathematics? Asking the Pope? Of course one must avoid the usual inductive fallacies -- hasty induction, slothful induction, biased samples, etc., but its the only game in town. |
whether audio salesman are personable or supercilious, the question is can you buy what you want at a fair price, in spite of attitude problems ? i believe if you are negotiator, you can deflect any negativity on the part of salespersons or store owners, they want to sell and hopefully, they can entice you to buy. its all business, nothing personal. |
Mrty...keep it simple will you ? This isn't Harvard psychlology class here. Speaking only for myself and my own personal experience, good friendly audio shops have been the exception, not the rule, at least for me. Now that's my personnal view. As for my professionnal view (with my consulting work in the last 15 years) I pretty much come to the same conclusions. I understand that this might be hard to understand for some folks who happen to have a nice, friendly hi-fi store close by. God bless them. |
hi superhonestben: designing audio systems by women for women does not preclude male purchasers, just as designing stereo systems by men for men does not preclude the possibility that women will want to own them. in either case there is no discrimination. neither men nor women would be prevented from buying the aforementioned stereo systems, if they were avaiable to both genders, without any restrictions. |
hi pookie10: is it possible that your experiences have not been representative of audio professionals, but rather represent a minority of audio professionals ? perhaps you might consider them audio rednecks. there are intolerant people in all professions, but they are not the majority. i am not doubting the veracity of your anecdotal observations. however, most business persons are motivated by self preservation, i.e., generating a profit from their endeavors. thus it is counterproductive to antagonize a customer and not make a sale. |
Ibog1, interesting point of view and I thank you for your comment. I will be the last to say that so far the high-end audio experience has not been mainly a masculine thing. Again, nothing wrong with that to the same extent that we are mainly talking ''toys'' here. Women of course, have their own toys of which many are of absolutely no interest for most men (unless a $ 3,200 Louis Vutton bag excites you but - hey - it's a free society!). I guess my point is that a lady is trying to get in ''the club'' and probably risking a good sum of money in an effort to make a living at it. Risking more than most if us that are well shielded behind a computer screen where it is easy to give our opinion. I just feel that it is an old-school thinking not to find this refreshing. And what about the possibility that old-school, know-it-all dealers out there (you know the type) could learn a thing or two in the process? One reason why I enjoy Audiogon and the possibility of buying on-line is because I feel the traditional audio shop has not followed with modern times and modern attitude. But that's a whole other debate of course. Of course Stereolady can learn a lot by watching the whole male-dominated audio scene. I just feel that it could also be the other way around, and that it could induce some much needed energy to spice things up a bit. Please bear in mind that my point of view is totally subjective, but then, my job is on a daily basis to exactly try and pinpoint the possible flaws, threats, and opporunities in a given market or industry, and this has to be done very objectively. Being an ''audiophile'' myself, I am influenced by my own bias here, although I can detach rather quickly when needed, but granted it is not always easy to do so. Quick story to illustrate this: I had a consulting contract with a group of purveyors of hunting trips. The objective was to attract wealthy americans to northern canadian hunting trips. Expensive ones, where the guest is lodged in fancy castle-like ''log homes'' with gourmet food. The main promotional attraction was that with this hunting-trip company, you had a better chance of killing a huge deer, moose, than with another destination. My personal bias came into play here, but to a point where I just could not indulge in a business activity where my client would promote a ''better chance'' of killing an animal, and where I would help him do this. We all need to work (well most of us) but this I could not do. Holy smokes, am I off track here of what! Let's keep it audio, sorry ! |
Soniqmike, Are you showing this thread to the wife with the hopes of gaining favor for the impending large audio purchase:)? Or have you really convinced yourself that trying to demasculinize the ownership of audio gear is a worthwile endevour? I know that this might seem contraversial in such a forward thinking liberal society, but I do still enjoy the freedom that comes from standing while using the restroom. Hence, I still enjoy the few things that are almost unique unto us guys. Is it a crime to try to preserve some of these traditions? The answer would be NO! My wife does have her own audio rig, and I support her because she likes to listen to music, not make a statement by ownership. |
The post from Mich4T is interesting if not too flattering for us males. Notice his link and relationship between the notion of ''very manly man'' and ''Big Krell monoblocs and Wilson Grand Slamms''. In one sentence, he cracked open the marketing code of these two companies (especially Wilson) who are trying to fool everyone that Dave Wilson's ear (and his will to reproduce - from memory no less (!)- the sounds of the world's great concert halls. What a joke! Yeah, sure. There are some of beleive this or else hi wouldn't spend all that money telling us with his hi-fi mags ads. This points in the direction of the real core of this audio hobby for many (men) audiophiles. It's all about the gear, while music is just a front for respectability purposes. Of course the two are not mutually exclusive, once in a blue moon. Nothing wrong with being in it just for the gear, like some folks buy works of Art. I like 1" thick faceplates as much as the next guy. Fine by me. But let's call a cat a cat ok ? And Ibog1: ''how to accessorize your lawn mower so it looks cute while cutting the grass.'' Come on guys, let's get smart here and not start a battle of wits unarmed. For once, we have a lady that is opening up to our crazy (and expensive) hobby with good intentions here - Isn't this great news? Why the defensive comments? |
Stereolady: Yes over the years I have attended many shows, CES, CEDIA, HES, the Stereophile show when it was in NYC. I got treated with respect was when I attended as a Wall St Analyst covering the sector. When I attended on my own I got the "where's your husband?" Soniqmike: people should take a page out of the Aquos/Sharp playbook. They targeted the function/design towards women because they knew recognized that women shop differently and were the primary decision-makers in large ticket purchasing. General question: if someone is going listen to music while they do other things, then why do they need/want high end audio system. Recent studies have shown that it is not possible for the human brain to fully concentrate on multiple items but it switches constantly. Therefore, an iPod and a decent ss integrated and a pair of monitors should be enough. Perhaps this is why most women don't get the investment of cash and real estate to something that generates background music. In this case, B+O and Bose already have th |
Hey Ait- That's the view of a Dali Megaline from the front. Notice the ribbon array at the right of it's cabinet? The one on the right is a partial profile. The owner appears to be exercising a practice known as, "toe-in" in his placement. Here's a front view of a pair of Megalines to(hopefully) end the confusion: (http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1221106713.jpg) |
Nothing like a battle of the sexes to polarize a group of people. So now are we going to see a website by women for women to show how to make the family car more easily blend with the garage decor? Oh waite, I know, how to accessorize your lawn mower so it looks cute while cutting the grass. Let the men have what few toys we still possess. PALEEZ! |
I think this is a good idea and certainly worth pursuing as a business opportunity. There are other businesses, such as fitness clubs, that cater only to women for gender based reasons. It is unquestionable that women have different views and approaches to things than men. It doesn't mean always mean that they are not interested in similar things, but their approach may differ. My wife is certainly very discerning when it comes to quality and appreciates the audio and video system that I put together. What she doesn't appreciate is the way that I do it, i.e. the research, the high-end audio stores, fussing over moving speakers an inch one way or the other, the ugliness of some of the equipment. Most of all, she doesn't appreciate the cost. From looking at Stereolady's website, it would seem to me that the target market is the very well heeled, professional since the majority of systems are very expensive. If I am wrong in this, I can only say that it is the image she is projecting. If I were starting such a business, I would very closely investigate the lower end of the high-end market, i.e. the women who wants quality but think that more than a few thousand is neither realistic nor justified given other household expenses. Or perhaps she has done this market research and decided that the more affluent person is her target. If so, then fair enough. And since Stereolady is monitoring this thread to see what all of us chauvinists have to say, I would recommend that she look at the following thread from a couple of weeks ago. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1222388824 The person who started this thread appears to be exactly the type of person you might be looking for as a client. |
So, Stereolady, what is the matching item on the left of the picture? A Dali Miniline, perhaps? Or perhaps they have a line of ultra-thin bass traps? Or maybe a divider in case I want to slip into something more comfortable while listening? In any case, the Megaline is in the wrong place and facing the wrong way - where is the other one? |
. All of this will of course introduce a new acronym into the hi-end lexicon. HAF....husband acceptance factor. You were a single female audiophile who is now getting married to a very manly man. What stays? His big Krell monoblocs and Wilson Grand Slamms or her color coordinated speakers and not so beefy amps? . |
I am very glad to have ''stumbled'' on this site that speaks Audio to women, and especially happy that it is generating a healthy discussion. Being a marketing strategy consultant for the past 15 years, I am often faced with designing strategies for companies with male and female clients as their target market. I have had client companies (in both B2B and B2C) manufacturing or distributing everything from tools, to furniture, to doors & windows, to high-end musical instruments...to high end audio (a few unknown companies as clients as well as one of the most prestigious manufacturer in all of high-end audio). One thing is for sure. Women use, enjoy, and most importantly, have different motivating buying factors than men as surely as Venus is different from Mars. More importantly, I am astounded daily (through my clients again) of the decisional power of women in seemingly purely traditional male items like garage doors, high-end tools, heating and ventilation equipment, and anything of significant value that crosses the front door into the home. High end audio does not escape this fact. We may underplay or minimize some exotic audio purchases to the kinder gender, but who are we fooling really? Audio gear companies that ignore this growing and positive female market force, especially the smaller companies (and there are many out there) will feel the squeeze eventually. So far, most audio companies have never felt that need to speak or sell to the ladies, but this might be prone to change in this niche market with a shrinking customer base in relation to the correspondingly large market offer from manufacturers - mass and boutique type- of high end audio. I would say that it is never too late to start heck it is smart business. And this will mean a lot more than the borderline insulting WAF term - wife acceptance factor - that many audiophiles use, reducing the seductive elements of audio components to looks only. Women actually like brains also, not just looks, in audio. In my humble opinion, accessibility to quality reproduced music and not just while relaxing in a Lazyboy, is a bigger priority to many women than the 1 thick faceplate of a preamp and the activity of analyzing the air around instruments in the same 10 recordings that are in rotation in many an audiophile sanctuary (because it is a sancturary right?). Sorry about the length of this text the topic just seemed overdue. B-T-W, my significant other likes music as much as I do, but just not served and enjoyed in the same fashion ! |
Back in the day there were only a few women surfing, now there out there shredding with power and grace. Even though my lovely wife was a capable disk jockey and went on to media promotions she's a bit uncomfortable with turntable maintenance. She has recently researched, selected, and was a major force in installing our new HT only system. While not all the women who she manages to get in the sweet spot find audio fidelity all that important, but many are so taken by the experience they've jumped in the water. I can't tell just how proud I am. Twenty-six pairs of black shoes and speakers out in the middle of the living room. Sweet. |
Pookie10 I appreciate your feedback! I also enjoy a dedicated listening room, but I have found thru much research, most people just starting out in the world of high end audio would prefer a more usable space they can share with others. I would be interested in asking you if you have attended many audio shows? I think this would be a good way for more women to get interested in this hobby. |
