@tattooedtrackman agreed it feels tight but the fact is the only thing supporting the faceplate the screw in the middle and the pressure against the frame around. The faceplate can vibrate relative to the surround at the edges and damping this is worth a try if you have some materials on hand. Glad the Furutech outlets have better screws then SR however |
@folkfreak ..........Dont know what you mean about your carbon fiber face plate vibrating... I had no problem with the center hole screw tightening or stripping.... It tightened very well and very secure with no vibration. I also used the Furutech GTX D-R.. Not the SR. Maybe they are somewhat different. |
@dynaquest4...... Yes i am having alot of fun... I am trying to get the cleanest purest sound that i can and to bring out the very best in all my equipment like we all try to do. I am only telling what i have heard to my ears. And that was more than very subtle... I dont have to keep switching duplexes back and forth to hear the difference. Besides It is a small job to keep wiring and rewiring duplexes and the Alum case and plate and keep going back and forth. Like i said i know my system and have been hearing it before i installed the Furutech GTX D- R and the Oyaides.... I heard the more than minimal improvement the first time i put on a cd. Sounds really unbelievable but its true and i will put my life on that. I also am not looking to or for a debate.as every one hears things different and every one has their own opinion... All i am saying is this is what i heard... |
@fsonicsmith .............. First of all i am only giving you MY opinion on what i did hear. And the result was ALOT more than minimal. I wrote my findings as mentioned above. I too have resolving gear. Arc Ref 6, Krell FPB 600, Rega Isis cdp. Straightwire Crescendos from speaker cable quad wired to my B&W 800 Matrix , Straightwire Crescendos XLR ICS. Shunyata Sigma HC PC , Shunyata Sigma Digital PC. Shunyata King Cobra CX. Second of all i am also using Furutech GTX -D-R with my Oyaide aluminum base and carbon fiber plates. You are giving you opinion on yours as minimal.. Thats what you are using as i am not using what you are number 1. And i dont have to keep switching outlets and plates back and forth to my judgement ....I know what i have heard before i switched. And what i am hearing now. You sound like a skeptic about those who are using SR Blue fuses Some of those people make judgments and have not even tried them. Does that sound familiar DUDE? |
Oyaide WPC-Z and Z2...... High performance mounting frame and panel....The appearance of the WPC-Z attracted audio enthusiasts and created a strong impression of mounting frame for wall outlets. In 2007, the long awaited double type base, WPC-Z2, has come on the scene. The most important function for high performance mounting frame is attenuating vibration dampening property. The hybrid materials , each of them has different resonance frequency, perform passive vibration suppression to maximize performance of the Furutech GTX -D-R .Furthermore, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, the material of face plate, has functions of static protection and electromagnetic shielding WPC-Z series are the ultimate optional accessory for unlocking unlimited potential of the Furutech GTX D-R.
I recently replaced my old $5 hospital grade outlets with $100 Oyaide R1's and replaced my old dedicated line comprised of 13 ga Romex with cryo'ed 10. The improvement; minimal. "Minimal" as in de minimus. I have resolving gear-ARC Ref 6 and Ref 150 SE, Cardas Beyond cabling, etc. Carbon fiber face plates and tuned mounting boxes? C'mon Dude. Why not go the next step and replace the stud the mounting box is attached to with some harmonically tuned 2 by 4 made of ancient dried ebony wood? And the drywall should be replaced too before it introduces bad resonances since the box and plate are mounted flush with the drywall. Maybe it ought to be carbon fiber too. This sounds like the parody of Madison Avenue ad copy; "
the ultimate optional accessory for unlocking unlimited potential of the Furutech GTX D-R.". I have an open mind and have implemented tons of tweaks, but this is Tice-Clock goofiness. |
@tattooedtrackman while the Oyaide CF faceplates are great their weakspot (endemic to the design of US outlets) is the single screw fixing in the center leaving the edges free to vibrate. Try applying small strips of FoQ damping material across the edge of the CF plate onto the aluminium surround and you will be astonished at the improvement. When it comes to managing vibration everything matters it seems.
Also the screws have a tendency to strip so changing faceplates can be a pain, this may be an interaction with the underlying outlets (I use SR Blues, Reds and Blacks and the stripping has happened with reds) |
Well it sounds like you are having fun with your hobby and I suspect there are other hobbies in which people spend gobs of money on tweeks that are of questionable value. I have no problem at all with hobbies and spending your money as you see fit. What I do have difficulty with (as I’ve mentioned before) are rave reviews (like yours) that tout a tweek as if a deaf person could hear the dramatic improvement. This, I think does a disservice to new, inexperienced readers of this forum.
If a "special" plug (OK....receptacle sounds better) did squeeze out any actual improvement, I submit it would be:
1. Very subtle (like with exotic cables, interconnects and power cords); not to the over-the-top degree to which you claim.
2. Nearly undetectable unless you could switch back and forth between plugs (probably electrically impossible) in an A/B type test. Audio memory, as I hope you know, is so perishable, it is almost impossible to remember the nuances of an audio track unless the transition is near instantaneously.
3. Expectation bias. The more you spend, the higher the expectation.
I’ve been into audio for a long time and never thought I see a day that good equipment would sound so lacking that you would have to spend $900.00 on a plug. But considering what cables have done, I should have suspected. Next? Pressure suits you can wear so that after you suck all the air out of your room you can listen in a vacuum?
BTW....not looking for a debate; just posting a counter-opinion for the record. Like with politics, no one is going to change their mind but we can influence those who have not yet reached an opinion. |
Oyaide WPC-Z and Z2...... High performance mounting frame and panel....The appearance of the WPC-Z attracted audio enthusiasts and created a strong impression of mounting frame for wall outlets. In 2007, the long awaited double type base, WPC-Z2, has come on the scene. The most important function for high performance mounting frame is attenuating vibration dampening property. The hybrid materials , each of them has different resonance frequency, perform passive vibration suppression to maximize performance of the Furutech GTX -D-R .Furthermore, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, the material of face plate, has functions of static protection and electromagnetic shielding WPC-Z series are the ultimate optional accessory for unlocking unlimited potential of the Furutech GTX D-R. |
@dynaquest4......Off the top of my head the cost was about $235 for each of the Furutech GTX-D-R . The Oyaide WPC-Z Aluminum base with carbon fiber cover $235 ? And the Oyaide WPC-Z2 double Aluminum base with carbon fiber cover $350? And even though they are and look and feel very industrial and look great i did not buy them for the looks. To me and my ears between the Furutech GTX- D-R and the Oyaide WPC covers is like adding a $2500 power conditioner. It really does some incredible positive things to the sound. My next tweek is the Herbies tube dampers for my ARC Ref 6 preamp... |
I can say my Furutech GTX gold duplex cost $145 each (on sale $70 off regular price ends July 31) I have two installed and a third on the way.I may also buy one GTX-R Rhodium plated.later. My setup has been geared to the greatest clarity I can find.. And had become a bit lean sounding. The gold Furutech were just the ticket to warm it up a little. All around much better, though a little too much bass for my apartment on a few recordings. But for the majority, perfect.
I have nothing to say about outlet covers affecting sound. LOL Only that I do use solid brass covers from Menards. $5 $6. (non magnetic)
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The minute i put on my first cd the improvement in sound was very rewarding to my ears. The sound from my cdp was more dynamic, crisper, clearer, cleaner with very nice natural highs that are very revealing .
So, tattoman: How much did each of these receptacle kits cost total? And how is the world can a face-plate, that is not connected in any way electrically, do anything acoustically and be worth over $100? If it is the looks, I get that. But, otherwise..... |
Last night i just installed my first Furutech GTX -D-R with the Oyaide WPC Z - Aluminum base with the carbon fiber cover which has been burned in for 30 days on my refig. I installed it for my cdp. The minute i put on my first cd the improvement in sound was very rewarding to my ears. The sound from my cdp was more dynamic, crisper , clearer , cleaner with very nice natural highs that are very revealing .It sounds like i installed a power conditioner. A VERY noticeable difference than a cheap Leviton receptacle. BIG IMPROVEMENT ....I am now burning in my second Furutech GTX-D-R for 30 days and after that one more Furutech GTX-D-R which then i will use both for my amp and preamp on my dedicated 20a line double gang box and put on the Oyaide WPC Z 2 double aluminum base with double carbon fiber cover... Cant wait to hear what those 2 will do for my amp and preamp... |
Elizabeth, I don't blame you.
I've been able to find good prices from some Audio stores that are very legitimate in Japan. The only drawback is the long wait for shipment.
If one doesn't want the wait time and is afraid of a fake item I suppose for peace of mind one can pay top dollar and buy from a trusted store in the good old USA :-)
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When going for the lowest price.. I would never buy from eBay. or Alibaba. Not even Amazon Marketplace. Just too many chances they end up being fake. Particularly Oyaide have fakes from China. I buy only from sellers I trust, even it it costs a few dollars more. Then I KNOW they are not going to be fakes.
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I've always done a Google search to locate the least expensive place to purchase my Furutech outlets from, seems like the best price and place to purchase from always changes over time.
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@elizabeth ........ Sounds like you have a good plan going on.. I am still burning in my first of my 3 Furutech GTX D-Rhodium duplex on my Ref line. Top and bottom each 15 days burn in time. I have about another week left for the first on to be burned in and then i will move to the 2nd. And then the 3rd . 3 months total for the 3. Then i will install one with the Oyaide carbon fiber cover and the other 2 with the WPZ -Z 2 dual duplex Oyaide carbon fiber . I will be using one with my Rega Isis cdp and my other 2 with my ARC Ref 6 And Krell FPB 600. That will be on the duplex. |
Well I used my tweaked moveable* Furutech GTX-gold duplex all over the place. and find a few good spots. So I am buying another one to actually install in the wall there. Then I can continue to move me moveable one around to see where it, or a second one could best go.I kind of am trying to not install one in a conditioner.. But if I have to.(I think I may have to trim the 'ears' sticking up and down on the duplex. and that is a tough job with ones so heavy duty.)I think two is plenty. If I go for a third, I would go with the Rhodium..* I made it moveable by adding two AC Wattgate plugs(no shell) to the bottom of the Furutech with short as possible 12 gauge. Taped over the screws in the Wattgate plugs. So the Furutech plugs into the existing duplex, and the cords into the Furutech. Goofy but helpful to decide WHERE to best use the $$$ Furutech.
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There is truth to just exposing new clean copper, and replacing the old outlet with a new one. I personally use Pass & Seymour heavy duty duplex. They cost about $6 now. (personally you could not GIVE me a Leviton..) Also, the truth of just unplugging and replugging everything once a year matters. And if you have unplated copper, cleaning the contacts too.I have often scrapped off the surface of copper (like in coax cable TV lines) with the tip of an Exacto blade to clean the oxidation off.I would tend to do the scraping before cutting.. There is only so much extra wire in the wall!
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I have a question, and I do use special outlets, so I am not a Luddite - at least in this instance, if not others.
When I install a new outlet, I cut back the oxidized wire to expose fresh, gleaming copper. How much of the improvement that I am hearing is due to this? Has anyone been so OCD as to cut back the wire and then put the old outlet back in to see if they can hear a change?
Along the same lines, has anyone removed a junk outlet, let’s single out our friends at Leviton for example, and replaced it with a brand new outlet of the same model? And you thought that you had too much time on your hands.
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Thanks, I would be interested in how they sound. I would guess it will take awhile for them to really break in? I am going to use my idea of two plugs with wiring directly to the back of the new duplex. plugging that into the possible to replace duplex, then the equipment in to the new duplex. to see how it sound from my Furman for the preamps. I do not want to have to do a LOT of work just to hear it there (taking apart the box, etc..) so I am hoping to get a glimpse by piggy backing the new duplex over the one in the case. As long as I avoid shocking myself LOL
Then it goes into the space for the Amp duplex.
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@elizabeth .......... That sounds good. That warm one would probably would be the easiest to hear as a difference. After my 3 burn in and install them i will let you know what i hear. |
I wanted a 'warm' one to start with.I would think it is the easiest to 'hear' as a difference before I spend any more on receptacles.Plus I want to warm up my amp a little, maybe.
Curious I was also reading a thread with other folks high value of the Pass & Seymour (non audiophile) receptacles. I have separately been a fan of them for many years.Anyway trying out one high end well regarded receptacle should be good.
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@elizabeth ..... I think the Furutech GTX -D-R Rhodium are better than the gold.... I bought 3...Still burning in my first one hooked up to my refrig. |
Ahh rethinking the receptacles. Am only getting ONE new gold GTX-D to play with. Decided the others were half way stuff. And I am tired of foolishly buying halfway to just soon enough go all the way. up to the better ones So I cancelled the FPX ones.
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I recently bought a pile of power cords to replace some older ones.
Good improvement. So now I am getting some Furutech duplex. My BIG PLAN for breaking the five outlets all at once is to daisy-chain them.I have the eight extra Wattgate plugs I would need. Install the first Furutech in the wall, both outlets of each with plugs wired into the next one, (12 gaige wire) each side. repeat three more times. then plug my big system pair of plugs in to the top one. The new plugs get burned in, all five outlets get burned in.Yeah it will be interesting to HEAR my system with that in the wall.I figure I can leave them a month like that. (I am betting in 24 hours I will not notice it anymore)
The outlet is on a kitchen wall.. Just have to arrange to keep it untouchable.. for a month. (cover with a box?)
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Yes you can put a 15 amp plug on a 20 amp circuit, but why would you want to?
You can also put a 20 amp plug on a 15 amp circuit, but you run the risk of burning down the house and everything in it. Oh yeah, and it's against pretty much every code for that reason!
Some people use 10 guage, but 12 Guage wire will handle both in a home setting, but the breaker might have to be changed to match the plug.
Hope this helps.
JD |
@tattooedtrackman I don't believe that a CDP necessarily needs to be on a completely dedicated circuit, but would avoid sharing a circuit with appliances or even a high currant power amp.
Because good conductivity and tight connections is important - I do believe in the use of quality receptacles and because there is a bit of noise and grunge introduced from appliances and even down line transformers, and minor voltage dips and spikes in nearly all residential electrical circuits - I do believe in the use of good power conditioners for both video and audio gear...Jim
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I wasn’t referring to the 20A dedicated circuit argument. Wasn’t that obvious? |
@jhills........... Thank you for your post.... I just want to tell you that i know that the 20A is not necessary for a CDP, but since it is on a non dedicated circuit (15A} I thought it would be better to put in on a dedicated circuit, and since i do have to run a dedicated circuit i thought it might be better to run a 20A dedicated line on my other wall by my CDP just in case of adding something else..Just in case....... Now let me ask you a question please, Do u think a CDP should be on a dedicated line? |
@geoffkait My impression is most naysayers couldn’t care less about the item under debate.
Not necessarily. The OP asked for help and advice; if some of the advice is false and it might cost them, unnecessarily, a good amount of extra money, the OP should be told.
The idea that you need to install a dedicated 20A circuit to get better sound from your CDP is bogus. The idea that - if you put the ground leg on the top end of your breaker panel's ground buss, as apposed to the bottom end of the ground buss, will eliminate noise coming through the ground loop - is bogus The grounds are all commonly connected to the same ground loop....just sayn...Jim
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My impression is most naysayers couldn’t care less about the item under debate. They mostly just like getting a rise out of the believers. It’s not as if they’re real skeptics. Been that way for like forever. Besides, most things aren’t even that controversial. |
@dynquest4....... Thank you for your unbiased opinion in what you believe and dont.. I appreciate you being straight and forward.. @elizabeth ....... I guess it all comes down to is what YOU believe will work and dont work. Naysayers will always believe in what they believe in as we believe in what we want to believe in. Is there really proof one way or the other? Maybe no.. |
The actual rule is if you do not like aftermarket wires and such, just keep posting drivel until no one wants to read it anymore .The flack and crap get to water down any actual discussion, until basically the nay sayers win. They are on a mission. Why I have no idea, but that they do this is clear. One way they do this is to GET YOU TO ANSWER their crap questions. This just gives them more ammunition to attack you. Plus wastes your time. Fills up the thread with useless stuff, and detracts from the main questions.
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Sorry, tatooman....those posts of mine are "tongue-in-cheek"...as in satirical. There is no proof that "burning-in doesn’t work; just as there is no proof that it does work. In high-end audio, what you think you hear is entirely subjective and powerfully influenced by what you WANT to hear (often called "expectation bias).
About the only thing I believe needs to be broken in are speakers - to loosen up tight new driver surrounds. There is absolutely no reason I know of to even think that you need a special receptacle much less need to "burn it in."
This camp (Audiogon) is composed mostly of people who want to believe that gimmicks, tweaks and tricks actually work. And they believe so strongly, their subconscious allows them to think they actually hear a difference. Again...expectation bias.
I’ve tried expensive speaker wire and interconnects and found them to be no better (except for cool looks) the good quality, inexpensive products.
There seems to be a rule here; if you spend a lot of money on something that seems strange, never confess that it doesn’t work and look the fool.
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I am only trying to find out the truth and facts. I hope you understand and please dont take it personal.. |
@dynaquest4 I dont understand ....Am i reading your posts wrong ? Can you explain your posts better ? I am reading your posts as you say first > This is exactly what i mean about people on this forum , who really dont know what they are talking about, giving out very questionable advice about gimmicks and tweaks that can cost serious money and accomplish virtually nothing....Then you talk about your refrigerator continually burning in and the the food and drink stays fresher longer etc etc....Hard to believe but its true .YOU SAY...Then i replied that when i am burning in my Furutech on my refig line i said that my milk tasted alot colder ...I really do believe what i taste . As ridiculous as this sounds, i believe it. Then you write still chucking ....burn in ....what a concept......>>>> How is it otherwise intelligent people {well some of them} find themselves so gullible as to believe those wives tales. ....... To me there is more proof by reading what other people post about burning in receptacles than it does not need to or make any difference . At first i really did believe what you wrote about your refig keeping things fresher. Thats why i added what i believed about my milk seeming alot colder. And i still believe it. As unbelievable as it may sound. Now i see that you are " non believer " Can i ask you where your poof is about burning in receptacles means- makes no difference? I would really like to know that.. Please explain your proof.. I am only trying to find out what is true and not.. As this will also save me months and months from burning in my furutech receptacles on my refig...Thanks |
Let's not start another political thread. The current one is more than enough. |
Please don’t use "truth" & "trumps" in the same sentence. The latter doesn’t know what the former is. |
Strange how truth trumps subjectiveness. Thinking about burning in my electric toothbrush. Who knows what differences that might make. 😂 |
dynaquest4, You may be on to something with the freezer idea... Now just go away |
Don't forget rule #1, do not listen to roberjerman or dynaquest4. |
Still chuckling. Burn in....what a concept. Next thing you know people will convince you that pre-freezing your stuff before burning in will make it sound even better. How is it otherwise intelligent people (well some of them) find themselves so gullible as to believe these wives tales?
Scams need suckers. |
typo... But i swear the milk tastes alot colder since letting my Furutech GTX d r receptacle burn in... No Joke !!! |
@dynaquest4........... I was not going to say anything because i thought it was "Just my imagination , running away with me " as Mick Jagger says. But i swear the milk tastes alot colder since letting my Furutech GTX d r receptacle. No Joke !!! |
My refrigerator is continually "burning-in." It amazes me that veggies continue to be crisper, the glass shelves have more transparency, white wine stays fresher longer and the volume of the interior seems to be getting larger. Hard to believe but it is true. I can see, smell, taste and feel the differences. Unfortunately I cannot hear a difference. Bet if I tried harder I could.
Burning-in!! The critical element in achieving maximum product performance! |
Too bad i only have one refig. It will take me 3 months to burn in all 3 ... lol.. But there is not really no rush. Ive been using generic receptacles for a few years already. So i should hear a nice difference when i install the Furutechs. Will also be using the Oyaide Z2 dual duplex carbon fiber cover / aluminum base. And the Oyaide Z Single duplex carbon fiber cover / aluminum base. |
@lak ..........Ok sounds good.... I think we are in the same neighborhood. Ill prob let them just burn in for the 30 days / 750 hrs. My mistake in the last post..20 days equals 480 hrs. |
Ive found some threads about burn in time for the Furutech GTXd-r anywhere from 500 hrs to 1000 hrs. of burn in time. I will let them each burn in for 750 hrs. / 20 days. 10 days each on the top and bottom plugs plugged into my refig. I figure since its already hooked up to my refig i will just let it burn in more. It cant hurt |
I read a lot of literature and posts quite a while ago about the very long and frustrating time people were having breaking in the Furutech rhodium and gold outlets. I burned mine in on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker for 30 days, I don't know how many hours would have actually been necessary on my cable cooker but I did the for sure thing ;-)!
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@lak ........ I also read that you are using 5 Furutech GTX d-r,,,,,,,How many hours did you burn them in for? |
