seikosha the sound overall is very comparable to my main system up to moderately loud volume. Have not had opportunity to evaluate the phono section yet in detail but initial impressions was most favorable. I'm running the c5i solely with my smaller ohms so far. |
In the original price range(from 4 years ago!), The Parasound Integrated should be on the short list. Parasound's house sound is to the warm side and their Halo line is really something special. |
Hey Mapman,
How do the DAC and phono stages compare with the ones in your main system? |
Bel canto c5i is a fabulous piece. Pretty much just plug and play for any source and enjoy. |
Without a doubt just chance to better tubes the Coincident Dynamo
SET integratd amp the Japanese transformers are excellent
And 8wpc ,But transformers are built over 40% bigger then they need to be
Superb dynamcs and detail. If tiyr speakers are 90 db or over in a med size room .excellent i have a powered sub ,amd Omega Alnico speakers great combination. EL-34 tubes Psvane mk-2 Mullard 5ar4 rectifier,and Tungsol
1948 smoke glass 6SU7 tubes . Others have compared $4,000 amps against this. This is a Giant killer without ant reservation. P.s
Evrn more potential in modding Khozmo volume ,Jenson 4 pole caps, and Jupiter coupling caps that is the next step to transform this even further
If you are into modding . |
I'll 2nd/3rd the Yamaha AS-2000. Very powerful, neutral, spatial & smooth, plus a very nice phono stage. For a bit of tube musicality, the PrimaLuna Prologue series r very well built & emotionally satisfying. They also allow either EL34s or KT88s and an added phono board so you maintain flexibility in speaker/mood matching. I appreciate the versatility each offers
over the long run. |
Easy............Yamaha A-S2000 |
I did a side by side with Bel Canto S300I, Musical Fidelity A5 and NAD 375BEE through Dynaudio Focus 220s, and for Hard Rock and Jazz, the NAD was easily the winner. The warmth of the Musical Fidelity sounded best with Classical.
Good luck |
valve audio predator w/ upgraded tubes! |
I've heard the Atoll IN200 as well as a combo of one of their seperate preamps and amps, and they both sounded amazing, and completely caught me off guard. I was really surprised because I prefer tube gear, I personally have Audio Valve Baby Baldur monoblocks with their Eclipse preamps, and while the Atoll didn't measure up to these, it was still enjoyable to listen to and very musical while costing a fraction of the price. So for the price I would highly recommend it. Actually as I'm starting to get into analog more I'm considering Atoll's p200 phono preamp to start off with. I'd demo thier integrated amp first if you can you you can make sure it has good synergy with your system (last time I upgraded my speakers I made the mistake of not listening to them in my system and then spent more than twice as much upgrading my preamp and amps to the Audio Valve ones I have not to get the speakers to where I wanted, and actually significantly better than they sounded at the dealers house).
Anyway out of the other recommendations that have been made while I didn't prefer the Audio Research VSi60 in my rig, I know a lot of people who do like it a lot so if you can afford the extra you should consider it. The other integrated amp besides the Atoll that I would recommend is the Cary Audio SLI-80. Like the Audio Research VSi60 the Cary Audio SLI-80 has also received great reviews, it has a bit more power and also retails at a two thirds of the price of the VSi60, so it is much closer to your original budget. I've listened to both of them and definitely prefer the Cary over the Audio Research. I also prefer the Cary over the Atoll.
If you do end up with the Atoll, make sure to invest in a good power cord for it because Atoll responds really well to good power cords. Hope this helped and good luck. |
i think the vincent audio 236 is what i want to go with. a hybrid that should give me the best of both worlds. what do you guys think of this choice. has any body heard of its reliabilty? |
I too second the BEL CANTO C5i, and is absolutely fantastic amp/DAC. It's easy to use, just plug and play. I paired it with Cambridge iD100 docking system, Definitive Tech Bipolar speakers, Siltech speaker cables, Nordost Shiva PC's and Cardas digital RCA. The soundstage is wide specially in the highs and mids with outstanding basss response. Just ordered a pair of REGA RS3's from a Rega dealer in California and can't wait to hook them up with the C5i. Fantastic small piece of ALL IN ONE equipment. |
i have owned nad in the past and actually using a nad reciever currently. scared about reliability. |
I second the recommendation for the Bel Canto C5i as well as the more powerful discontinued S300i which I owned. You can pick up the latter used for around $1200 - $1500. |
If you can deal with seperates, for under your budget you can get an NAD pre/power combo. PSB and NAD are owned by the same company. They use each other's gear to voice their own. Synergy goes a long way.
I think integrateds mentioned earlier like the Plinius are better amps than the NAD combo, but I'm not sure about the synergy. Haven't heard them together to say so.
Does the NAD M3 fit the budget? |
cj made a lower powered 2250ss power amp that is 125 wpc and would work nicely when combined with one of their tubed pre-amps. I am not necessarily pushing cj here but they are a very reputable high end manufacturer with great customer service should you need it. And this combination will provide the smooth sound in the mid to upper frequencies you desire along with good Bass control. Also will easily fit your budget (used).
Chuck |
Not sure what you think a lot of wattage is, but regardless of the size room you have, you really need something in the 100 watt range with your speaker,s relatively low sensitivity - I don't think that is a lot of SS watts, you may, not sure. I run my speakers with 35 watts and that is plenty of power for them, but they are 89db, you would need a 140 watt amp to sound as loud (all things being equal) as mine does with the much lower power amp than what I am recommending for you. I would think you could easily find a used SS integrated with the power you need to handle your speakers in the price range you mention. |
i agree that i dont need a lot of wattage but clean power as i have a small listening room. i would like to stick to an integrated for money reasons. i am intrigued by the atoll 200 but im not getting alot of feedback. i dont care about reselling as this would hopefully be my last piece. does anybody know of reliabilty and sound quality of this product. |
Pubul57 agree which is a good reason for staying within the same family of components i.e. cj amp cj pre-amp.
Just for reference I am driving a pair of Focal monitors 1007Be with my SLI-80F1 direct coupled in triode mode (40wpc) and have way more volume available than I need. I listen primarily to Classical large symphonic works (Holst, Mozart, Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff) as well as some small chamber orchestras, Classic Rock (Zeppelin & Floyd) and Female Jazz vocals.
Chuck |
Sim Audio I-5, if you want solid state. Cary SLI-80, if you want tubes. |
Chuck's last recommendation sounds like a very good one indeed. If you can pull of a tube pre/ SS amp combo at the price point it should help bring some tube qualities, while having enough current drive for your speakers. Assuming a good impedance match between the pre/amp - not always the case when using this type of tube/ss combo. |
I just read through Stereophiles review of your speakers and they appear to like power and do have a nasty looking impedence curve as Pubil57 makes reference to. If yo must have an integrated then I would suggest buying the largest powered and best quality integrated you can afford. A 100wpc ss will do not better (unless it is a high quality integrated) in fact probably worse than the 80 wpc Cary as you will be overdriving the ss amp (Nasty). If you don't have to stay with an Integrated I would suggest seperates such as a conrad johnson ss amp (2500a/250wpc) combined with one of their tubed pre-amps (PV-12) as an example. That combination will provide the muscle to control your speakers along with the midrange and top end smoothness you desire.
I once drove a pair of Thiel 3.6's with a cj premier 11a (70wpc) tubed amp and it did a very nice job very smooth and detailed. Obviously not the last word on Bass but the mid to high end frequencies were beautiful. I then switched to a cj ss amp (2500a) along with one of their tubed pre's as I suggested above and the sound was excellent. Retained the tubed mid/ high frequencies but gained bass control from the high powered ss amp.
With a budget of 2500 you should be able to afford this combination (used of course). And I am sure you will be pleased with the results. The cj equipment will be of a much higher quality than the Yamaha or Marantz products.
Just my thoughts Good Luck.
Chuck |
Smooth sounding and warm...check out the Marantz integrateds.
Right in your budget, new or used, all well reviewed. |
Grant Fidelity A-534B juiced up with premium black treasures and Psvane driver tubes all around. Complete with remote for less than your reference price. Superb performance! |
I haven't heard the Cambridge phono. I'd say get the new amp and then compare, sell the Cambridge if it's not as good. As for the Yamaha, it maybe a good sounding amp , in fact I'm sure it's a good sounding amp; is it better than a Plinius .. I'd be very very surprised if it is :-) |
what do people think of the yamaha s2000? is it in the same class as the integrateds were talking about. im really talking about sound quality. |
i have a cambridge 640 phono preamp. do you think its as good as the phono sections of these amps. or should i sell it and get a amp with a phono built in. |
Yes, Plinius 9200 does come with a pretty darn good phono. The Mac 6300 is nice but maybe a bit underpowered at 100wpc into 8 ohms and 160wpc into 4 ohms. The Mac 6600 would be a stellar choice but is way out of your price range.. Plinius 9200 is 200wpc into 8 ohms and 280 wpc into 4 ohms.. so lot's of grunt for your PSB's. The Sim amps are also really really nice amps not sure if you'll find one with enough grunt in your price range though. |
You might want to try a Yamaha a-s2000. A future classic that we will talk about for a long time! |
Good point. Vik, do you need phono? If so, I'm thinking a MAC 6300 might do the trick if you can get one at the price point. Not sure about Plinius, but I think it does come with phono. Again, I think the SIM integrateds, in the power range, would have to be right up there with these. I'll say this, if you had a Plinius, MAC, or SIM within the 100-150 watts range, you could do a lot worse:)driving a pair of PSB Golds. |
The Portal is a really nice amp. I has at one time considered one, but for me no remote was a deal breaker. Also and you didn't mention if its important but it also does not have a phono stage. |
pubul57 what integrated do you think i should go for as you seem to know my psb stratus gold needs. my listening room is small but the psb seems to need power. i love a wide soundstage and cant stand the harshness of overbearing highs. |
On reputation alone, I think the Plinius is likely to be a good way to go. The Portal Panache is another good candidate, I do think Nelson Pass designed the circuit, and nothing he designs sounds anything but good. Basically any integrated SS with 100 watts or more should up for consideration. What I would not do is go tubes with those speakers, and I only have used tubes with a few forays into Pass SS, so it is not that I am an SS guy, but if I loved the PSBs, and many do, I do think you have to go the SS route to make them sing and give you the bass they are capable of. The Ayre mentioned is great, but not enough power for those speaker at loud levels IMHO. Same with the NAIM mentioned, great amp, but you need some juice for those speakers. |
pubul57 what integrated do you think i should go for as you seem to know my psb stratus gold needs. my listening room is small but the psb seems to need power. i love a wide soundstage and cant stand the harshness of overbearing highs. |
No. I have heard tube amps with speakers not appropriate for
tubes and then the same amp with speakers that are and the
amps always sounded best (and the speakers as well) when
properly matched to the speaker. As wonderful as the Cary
may be, it remains a tube amp, and the PSB a speaker that
performs best with high current amps, SS for the most part,
though I am pretty sure a CAT JL2 would drive the PSBs very
well indeed (a high powered, Class A, 200lbs tube amp with
three massive transformers each weigh as much as the whole
SLI - yes a tube amp like that would be undaunted by most
speaker loads - the SLI is not that type of tube amp).
As for the importance of matching amps to speakers,try
listening to B&W 802D with the Cary, then
lets say a pair of Merlin VSMS with the Cary - your
impressions will be quite different, the CARY will sound
like a much better amp with the Merlins. Then try the B&W
with a McIntosh 200 watt SS amp, your view of the B&W is
considerably better than you first thought - even if you
thought it sounding quite good with the Cary - till you hear
with the SS Mac - almost a different speaker, for the
better, driven with the MAC. The Merlin will sound great
with both, but it will clearly show the superiority of tubes
with speakers that are meant to be driven by tubes. |
Pubul57 have you heard that combination? |
He speicfically mentions PSB Stratus Gold, which will make the Cary SLI-80 not sound like the "great" integrated that it is. |
I just re-read this question, and since it does not ask in regard to what speakers, just best sounding integrated under $2500, I'm voting for the Cary SLI-80 again. Great sounding integrated with 80/w, and great to look at, great re-sale.
I'm voting again, you know, like a Chicago election. |
Creek is nice I had one, it blew up.. took MONTHS to get fixed because it's made in China and Creek UK (forget Music Hall) had to wait to get the parts needed from China to fix it.. That's only one data point but I sold it shortly after and replaced it with a Rega Elicit. The Rega won't really drive your PSB's, it's only 80 wpc. Atoll is very nice but no resale value, if that's ok then consider it. The Plinius, and again I had one for almost 7 years and never a hiccup, has got all the power you'll need (200 wpc) and is sonically outstanding, tons of great reviwes and has been a TAS editors choice in it's price range numerous times. Plinius has after almost eight years come out with a replacement for the 9200 (Hautonga) so there are a few good buys on used 9200's, fyi the 9200 really haven't changed much but the later versions did add a balanced input. Seems that 9200's get snapped up pretty quick on the 'Gon so if that's the direction you want to go you'll need to keep your eyes open. Oh and Musical Fidelity, I haven't owned one but they have always gotten good press and are certainly a worthy product. |
Vikingnick, IMO, you should seriously consider the Atoll pre/amp option. Think of it as a 2-piece high current integrated amp, which has 124000 mf capacitance and 1000 VA power transformer. Now, can you get something like that for $2200?
I highly doubt that. |
|
atoll 200.creek destiny. musical fidelity a5. plinius 9200 has come up alot. which would be better sounding and reliable for psb stratus golds. |
More I think about it a used Plinius 9200 would be a great choice.. Lot's of power, very musical, non-fatiguing can easily drive a 4 ohm load, good phono section, built like a tank. I had one for almost 7 years and it was built proof never an issue and it took me a long time to find something that really was better.. and it was tubes, which wouldn't drive those PSB's you have. |
A used Portal Panache (100w/8 200w/4) would be a worthy choice - though you can get it new for $1795. Unverified rumor is that Nelson Pass designed the circuit. The Ayre would be wonderful IF it had more power for the PSBs, but I think it would be a bit shy. |
Going back to the original question...and budget.
The PSB Stratus Gold speakers need some juice to sound their best. They are a nominal 4 ohm load with dips below 3 ohms - while many of the integrateds here are, in fact, fine machines, they are not optimally suited to drive such a load. From what I've read from current and past Gold owners, the more clean power, the better.
On my radar are Musical Fidelity (A308 and A5), Krell, Plinius...any others that deserve consideration?
I'd prefer to avoid class D amps; the ones I've heard have not exhibited the warmth I prefer although I am not close-minded on the subject. |
I don't think there are any actual "dogs" I think there will be better sonic choices for the OP's speakers. If the choice will be solid state I'd stick to something that errors on the musical side rather than the more neutral, PSB's are a nice speaker but with the aluminum dome tweeter I'd be careful with my amp choice. The Plinius 9200 would work well and if the OP isn't going to really crank things up the Rega Elicit is a really musical amp too. |
Is there an integrated amp in the $2,000-$2,500 should avoid? Other than tube ones? I get the feeling you can hardly go wrong with an SS integrated in that price range, though they may be a clunker out there to avoid. |
Rega Elicit, Plinius 9200 ( maybe a bit over your budget but worth it, imo) the Creek Destiny is very good unless it breaks, damhik, ARC Vsi55, Atoll is also a nice piece, but weak resale value I'm afraid. |
I have the Atoll components. Great sound, never had a problem.
You can get Atoll AM200 power amp and PR300 pre for $2200 from
http://www.musicalsounds.us/opbxspl.php |
Two integrateds that I'm surprised to see haven't been mentioned and that you might consider would be the Ayre, which can generally be had for less than $2k used, and the Naim NAIT 5i. Both make music.
Happy listening. |
