Polite Rules for discussing Audio related things

Well, it seems as though threads would die a pretty quick death should the originator of a given thread “over-moderate.” And those feeling unjustifiably burned in the process would not be inclined to contribute to those threads in the future. Other threads that do survive and remain vibrant would flourish. Call it natural selection. 

>>The only way to effectively moderate a forum thread is to give the editorial keys to the originator of the thread.<<

I can’t stop laughing. 

celander

The only way to effectively moderate a forum thread is to give the editorial keys to the originator of the thread.

That’s not the way this group works, and it seems to function pretty well. There is the occasional bad actor, but they are usually quickly identified.

We Love @Elizabeth!!!! Couldn't agree more

celander
The only way to effectively moderate a forum thread is to give the editorial keys to the originator of the thread. If things get whacked out of control with nonsensical discourse or off-topic commentary, then the thread originator can step in to remove those posts.

>>>>Sorry, but that is actually a bad idea, the reason being the OP would be able to get rid of dissenting opinions. One person’s sense is another person’s nonsense. Many of these topics have been kicking around for decades and they should not be concluded at the discretion of some Tom, Dick or Harry. The only moderator should be the, uh, moderator.

elizabeth wrote:

  The connection made between existentialism and anarchy is interesting. I would say existentialism is an introvert, personal World view, while anarchism is an extroverted vision of a similar (though not identical) World view. Both make the assertion that one is totally self responsible for the condition one finds oneself in. And that oneself as the only agent capable of changing it.The dark side of existentialism is giving in to the hopelessness in the emptiness

No, actually, according to Sartre, Camu and Neitzsche existentialism was very much of a projected world view. And the dark side of existentialism is not so much a matter of giving in. The dark side is that in order to be intellectually honest with oneself one has to understand that existentialism IS hopelessness and emptiness. To do otherwise is to hold a delusional  world view. It seems to me that anarchism is subject to the same logical conclusion: despair and absurdity. "Not giving in" to that logical truth is to delude oneself.

With both existentialism and anarchism you cannot logically overcome the idea that if everything is okay then everything is okay. There is no room for approbation of anything. That would include the popular evils of racism or sexism. In the world of existentialism those are nothing more than individual choices and are no worse or better than love or philanthropy.

The only way to effectively moderate a forum thread is to give the editorial keys to the originator of the thread. If things get whacked out of control with nonsensical discourse or off-topic commentary, then the thread originator can step in to remove those posts. 

@geoffkait  Are you saying 'The Devil is in the (our) Cables?' 😊

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. The reason I know that is because I watched The Usual Suspects.

" have we promoted faith, hope, prosperity, and maybe, world peace?????? "  Absolutely!  Oops my bad, I thought you wrote Whorled peas.. Never enough Whorled Peas to go around.

Aramaic and Middle Persian was mostly a metaphor on my part, though I regret that I don't speak any ancient language. I imagine some people who lived thousands years ago discussed exactly the same as we do. Things don't change, in this respect.
I do see a jump in the level of uptightness and delinquency lately, this is not in a sense of being " a little off " as Whart put it.

So now, have we promoted faith, hope, prosperity, and maybe, world peace??????

The connection made between existentialism and anarchy is interesting. I would say existentialism is an introvert, personal World view, while anarchism is an extroverted vision of a similar (though not identical) World view. Both make the assertion that one is totally self responsible for the condition one finds oneself in. And that oneself as the only agent capable of changing it.The dark side of existentialism is giving in to the hopelessness in the emptiness
The dark side of anarchism is giving in the the rage and turning the World into emptiness!

@inna- Anarchy in the NYC bank/corporate law world was wearing a rakish necktie. It’s all relative. I have one dear friend who was part of the big firm/financial services scene- he is now an Internet muckraker who lives in the edgy part of Kowloon. I think he’s having way more fun. We all have our way of ’expressing’ who we are in little tells--I actually like people who seem a little "off"- why? Because they probably aren’t as repressed. It’s the uptight, conventional folks that scare me. :)

inna
Elizabeth, I appreciate both your gibberish and ignorant post and your wish to talk to me. Thank you.

As for the English language, do you speak Aramaic or Middle Persian, perhaps ?

>>>>Ban this person!!

+1 ElisabethI too subscribe to civility—after all, it can't hurt even in this emotionally charged hobby.
Following some rules of civility is not censorship, is it?

There are a number of audio-related Facebook groups where the administrator lays down the law and then deletes rude posts and bans bad actors. It would be a lot more fun, can post pics easily, can visit members’ home pages to talk, etc, and folks would be a lot nicer.  You would have to create your own (real) FB page if you have not already done so.  Anyone have the time to start and manage a group?  

As the poster who perhaps is Audiogon’s all time leader in “posts removed”, I oppose all censorship personal threats and profanity being the only exceptions. 

C'mon Elizabeth you have offered some great insights and very  helpful advice to others, however back in the day, you had no trouble throwing gas on some of these situations to keep it going. I have personally stayed off of this site for this reason......everybody is an expert here. Trust your own ears.   

Why not discuss it in this forum, without going into details? Anarchism is part of me but not the whole of me. In fact, I am more interested in the roots and the process of formation of belief systems than belief systems themselves.
Well, as devoted ’professional’ anarchists might say - anarchy is mother of the order. Must be interpreted creatively, of course.

This thread is starting to get interesting. I just sent somebody that interview on Harry Dean Stanton's view of life~ in a word, there is no meaning to anything except that which we attribute to it. It's here: [url]https://flashbak.com/the-zen-of-harry-dean-stanton-surrender-to-the-void-to-nothingness-386512/[/url] for those of you who never read it. Kinda makes sense to me. 

inna, thank you for your candid responses. From my perspective (I know next to nothing about it) anarchism seems fraught with contradiction that seems almost logically impossible to overcome and seems, as you describe it, very much like existentialism if not exactly like it. While contradiction within belief structures is certainly not unique to anarchism, the most serious of existentialists found their beliefs to ultimately lead to absurdity.....like everyone should just be nice but it is no one’s place to actually suggest that.....And in the end, Sartre could not get past pushing his own political beliefs on others as absolutes.

Anyway, not the forum to discuss this but I appreciate you not taking my curiosity as insult.

Oh, in terms of authenticity, well, I have been authentically me since the day I was born. Always be yourself, as they say........unless you can be Batman, then be Batman. ;-)

Elizabeth, I appreciate both your gibberish and ignorant post and your wish to talk to me. Thank you.
As for the English language, do you speak Aramaic or Middle Persian, perhaps ? 

The current moderators certainly remove posts with outright profanity. Also posts attacking another person, or insulting another person (though as folks can read, Geoff can 'insult' me and no problem, since I insult him back, all in a 'friendly abusive way LOL)Generally posts attacking any IDEA are OK. And some insults aimed at the IDEA are fine too. No post actually selling anything would remain either.
inna: If you were a real anarchist, you would write in gibberish. Why cling to the conformism of English language? So you actually claim freedom, yet you cling to conformity! How comforting. Though perhaps you are like Abby Hoffman, and changing the system from WITHIN??

Let me add that strong and real anarchist trait allows a person to achieve high degree of authenticity and individuality without the need of resorting to primitive and often aggressive narcissism. Achieve both subjective sense and objectively.

n80, it is very difficult to be an anarchist without being a barbarian. The philosophy underlying anarchism is complex and not without conflicts and contradictions.
Besides, just because one has the right does not mean that the one should exercise this right without taking into account other considerations. The balance is hard to achieve, it takes years of work and practice.
And another thought. In many ways rules are designed to be broken.

Okay, I was looking for information, not making any recommendation. I was curious as to the actual observed rules as opposed to the printed regulations. It's always good to know what one is really dealing with.  If my surmise is correct, over the top posts are deleted on an individual post basis but no further action is taken.


Uberwaltz, I quite agree as I suspect you well know.

With that I'll be on my way. Thank you very much.

“Whatever it is, I’m against it”
- Quincy Adams Wagstaff

inna, as an anarchist on what grounds would you not support insults? If freedom of expression is sacrosanct is it still okay to put _some_ limits on it, even if those limits are personal approbation? Is it possible to be a quasi-anarchist? If so, I think I might be one. (All in fun....I've just never met an anarchist in person or on line although I did attend a march in Verona. It was very disorganized.)

All kidding aside, I think we have to remember that this site belongs to someone. It is not a truly public forum. There are no guarantees of free speech in such places. No moral or ethical boundaries are crossed of they are censored. It helps me to think of privately owned forums like this as someone else's cocktail party that I've been invited to and behave accordingly. There are always those guests who don't. You don't want to be "that guy"....but on occasion I have been "that guy" but at least have the capability of regretting it. Some seem to take pride in it.

These forums are the most active, have the most topics of interest and are neither over moderated or undermoderated. Be careful what you wish for. Many other sites that used to be active are moribund. Revel in your time.

The "system" is a shambles imho.
I think a lot of it is caused by today's interconnected everything where everyone thinks they a keyboard warrior and can post what they like hiding behind a user name.
Its not just here it is rampant in every walk of life now.
Just becomes more obvious especially with very little policing done.
But its a free forum, some would say free for all nowadays, its hard to expect anything better now.
A real shame as I have learned a lot from here and saved a lot of money by NOT buying the wrong thing.

I am an anarchist and defend freedom of expression. This doesn't mean direct purposeful insults, I would not object but would not support it.
I agree, people did not get uglier, they have always been ugly enough but not only.
Manufacturers and dealers participating here are in fact mostly beggars. Their choice, though.
Differences in perceptions and processing of sound are interesting to discuss. Still, there is a number of people who simply can't hear well, I would point it to them but would not dismiss them.

Geoff--

The system works? Does it? Care to share some deep insight?

The last two posts can be forgiven. They’re new here and haven’t learned how the system works. 

Hi gang, I'm the new guy here. Forty something posts, I feel like I'm intruding in an insiders club. I do have to thank Elizabeth for a timely topic.

I'm fresh off a roll in the mud on another thread. One honorable chap had three posts removed in about 24 hours. It reminded me of when I was expelled from reform school many years ago. Three posts in a day on one thread has to be some sort of record. No?


What's protocol here? I see thousands and thousands of posts on your distinguished resumes. This must be the spot to get informed responses.

If someone crosses the bounds of cordiality, repeatedly and determinedly, what happens? Is one encouraged to improve? If so, how?

1) Mandatory Psychotherapy?2) Picking up papers by the side of the road?3) The dreaded 12 step process?4) Zen chanting?5) Long needles and locked doors?6) Nothing at all?

If the answer is 6, as I suspect, are we hoping for Divine Intercession?Honestly, what is seen as bad acting here is nothing compared to what I've seen in the customer service arena. I had an all star team of Bozos that I could list for offensive behavior. This is very much the shallow end of the pool.

Still, since the subject is up, and it's a good topic, is it a real thing or is it a wish and hope that everybody just plays nice together?

Thoughts?

I think almost everyone understands precisely the nature of this thread except for the one or two people it was clearly aimed at who clearly don't.

Please note Lizzie the OP actually has a long history of getting wrapped around the axle, getting her panties in a twist and calling names. I think she took her baseball and went on a self imposed or whatever vacation for a year or two. Gentle readers, isn’t this whole thread hypocritical if not downright silly?

@paladin
Dont you think that would make for a lot of very boring and extremely short threads?

Civil discourse? What’s the point? Especially now. I’m for a laissez-faire forum, as long as you don’t threaten to kill anyone, anything goes.

Would be great if each responder to the post had only 1 (one) response to the post except for the OP!

@jond- I don’t disagree. I just find that gear talk is different than music and takes us down a different road. Sometimes, not always, the upset is due in part to the difficulties in communication. People talk past each other, they don’t read every line (and I’m as guilty of that sometimes as anybody). Trying to describe a sensory experience in words isn’t easy to begin with-- and then there’s the disconnect between the technology and the sonics-- lot’s of room for argument there and when it is disconnected entirely from music-pure engineering or technology discussions, it isn’t about the music even though that’s the end objective of all this stuff.
I think as long as it is intelligent, reasoned discourse, it’s fine. I know it’s hard to be ’wrong’-- I suffer from that to a degree, but I think as I’ve aged, I’m less concerned about appearing stupid--I know I am!. :)

Be nice or be quiet!

@whart I guess to me gear is the means to listening to music and disagreements or differences of opinion are fine but actually becoming upset? Life is way too short for that! And that goes for music debates as well everyone is entitled to their opinions and debates should be all in good fun.

I find that in a lot of high tech, high dollar hobbies like this the gear becomes the main attraction whether it be cars, cameras, guns, you name it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that but it does seem to generate heated discussions. People self-identify with their gear. Telling someone you don't like their gear is like insulting them.

People seem to get less offended by taste in music. I couldn't care less if someone doesn't like the music I like.

And if it is all about the sound, really and truly about the sound then "I like the way my system sounds" or "switching to ceramic speaker spikes makes a world of difference to me" should end every argument.....even if the system is a Bose Wave radio or the ceramic speaker spikes are on Realistic speakers from a Radio Shack close-out.

Some are here to sell their gear (think dealers) some are here to make the converstation about THEM (think geoff).

+5    2psyop

@jond- I think the explanation underscores how little the discussions of equipment relate (directly) to music-- it’s gear talk. And, I suppose even if one were talking about the music itself, one could find disagreement about best performances, and related minutiae- pressings, masterings, etc.

Listening to music is how I escape angst it's hard to imagine folks becoming angst-ridden discussing audio.

uberwaltz
Sorry Geoff there would need to be a LOT more posts here for all of your stalkers to have showed up yet......

>>>>>You got me there.