If you are including the low frequencies in the auto-eq, I think the problem is likely that there is relatively high and highly variable low-frequency background noise. You can reduce this problem by playing the pink noise at a high level during the auto-eq procedure, but you will likely be better off following their advice and using auto-eq only for frequencies above 100 Hz. Lower frequencies should be eq'ed manually, with the RTA providing some guidance but ultimately relying on your ears. Except for the auto-eq, my experience is that the DEQ2496 does an outstanding job for bass eq. |
Its a while since I played with one of these, so I cannot recall how you might have the problem you mention but the unit is tricky to master till you play a bit and read that manual a few times. Perhaps the setting for the mic is wrong. The reason I posted is to say the unit works fine below 100Hz. You just need to be careful to do the measurements when there are no spurious low frequencies around - such as traffic noise etc, and take measurements in a few different spots in case the one you chose was a node or anti-node. The only problem below 100Hz is simply that a quick auto-calibration can give you strange results. |
My bad - I had the EQ bypassed while trying to EQ! You are right about playing the pink noise at a high level to improve the S/N ratio. There was some low frequency noise visible at about -65 dB. I could hear it pulsing, and thought something was sending my subwoofers into oscillations, or the EQ was noisy. Turns out they are re-paving the Mass Pike not too far from my house. Just my luck! |
Use independant measurements (RoomEQWizard, ETF, TrueRTA) and set the EQ manually. This might have been easier with RoomEQWizard software and BFD1124Pro.
Kal |
I also just purchased one of these, but need some basic help. Are there any sites with tutorials, or any of you experts willing to help me out? |
Drubin, I don't know of any sites with tutorials, but you can post your questions here or email me and I'll help as best I can. The interface and many functions can seem overwhelming at first, but you will get the knack of using it.
Rich |
I find that the auto EQ works fine for all frequencies, if "fine" means perfectly flat response 2Hz -20KHz (in my system). I have a multichannel system, and two DEQ2496, and I do the front left and right and the surrounds each channel separately. Because my room is not symetrical, and one speaker system (MG1.6 and a subwoofer) is in a corner the EQ curves are quite different. I have a single channel parametric for the center front, and, by comparison it is a big pain you know where. I do run the white noise up to 85 dB or so when I do the auto EQ. After the auto EQ is done, and while the noise is still on you can turn down the volume and see if the frequency response changes. Mine does not. |
I just bought one of these and have a couple of usage questions.
When using the Auto EQ function:
-should I only use frequencies above 100hz? I ran it once going down to 20hz and it seemed to work fine. It cut most of the frequencies below 100, except 20hz which it boosted.
-should auto eq (page 2 menu) be set to fast, mid or slow?
-on the page 3 menu, what should "Max" & "Max Span" be set to?
-what setting should I use for noise gain? I set the volume pot on my pre-amp to approx my normal listening level and then set noise gain to -40, again this seemed to work okay.
I was surprised how much clearer everything sounded, especially complex music, after running the Auto Eq function. |
With most speakers, you are better off not doing any boose ast 20Hz or 25Hz or perhaps even 33Hz. You will be asking your speakers and amp to do too much. At lower frequencies, stick mainly to cuts. |
Drubin-
Good point, I didn't even think of that. I have Vandersteen 2ce's and they are suppose to go down to about 28hz. |
Ecruz...
1. Auto EQ works fine below 80 Hz (regardless of what the manual says).
2. Don't try to get flat response any lower than what your speaker is capable of. If you do you will mostly screw up higher frequencies.
3. I use the "FAST" setting, and after things have pretty much settled out I go to MID or SLOW. However, I find that FAST doesn't actually bounce around any more than MED or SLOW. If you were trying to do auto EQ while various noisy activities were going on (perhaps during setup for a live show) the SLOW setting would help.
4. The Delta MAX, and the MAX SPAN parameters allow you to constrain how much EQ is applied. I leave these wide open so that the DEQ2496 can do the best it can.
5. I adjust the gain so that the sound (as picked up by the mic, is about 85 dB. Where this puts your system's controls depends on your system. |
Eldartford-
Thanks for the response! I think that answers everything. If I have further questions I'll post back.
I can't believe how good everything sounds putting this "active" component in the signal path. I always thought the shortest, most passive path, from source to speakers was always best. One more myth shot down. |
One more question.
How do I know when Auto Eq is finished? The manual says you have to stop it. How do I know when to stop it? |
Hit the button next to the "stop Autoeq" when it's lit. There's three pages there so be sure you're on the right page. Page three will let you watch it do it's thing. |
I've never let it go long enough for the light to come on. I let it run on the "fast" setting for 5 minutes, then switched it to "slow" for another 5 minutes, then just watched it until the bouncing back and forth was minimal and then I stop it. By minimal I mean just a few frequencies going up a notch or two, then down a notch or two.
I can't believe how much clearer the sound is. In my book this is a "must audition" piece. |
Ecruz...In my experience 5 minutes is way overkill. 30 seconds in FAST mode just about nails it. Then I watch in SLOW mode, probably for another 30 seconds just to be on the safe side, but nothing much changes after the FAST phase. |
Just an update. I love this thing. If you haven't tried one yet, do it! It really makes a huge difference. There wasn't a flat response in my room. Every frequency was either up a few db's or down a few db's. I can't believe I thought my system sounded good before. When I bypass the EQ everything sounds muddy and vague. When I turn it back on everything snaps back in to focus. It really is one of those products that you have to hear for yourself.
For the record:
TRL modded Sony 900
TAD-150 pre
McCormack DNA 0.5
Vandersteen 2ce's
Usher interconnects and speaker cable.
PS Audio & Signal Cable power cables |
Are you having it EQ your system to flat or have you shaped the curve a little? |
I did not shape the curve. I set it to flat and then hit "room correction". Should I be tweaking it or is that just personal preference?
The thing that amazes me is that everything is clearer. I had no idea an EQ could make this kind of difference. |
Go here and read this:
http://www.prijsindex.net/tmp/room%20acoustics%20and%20eq.html
You don't want flat as it will sound thin in the bass and bright up high. You want it to sound like live music, at least I do. True flat most people don't care for. You can put in a curve and the Behringer will adjust to it. |
Warnerwh...I read it. Will there be a test? |
Thanks for that link, Warner. Where's that from?
And yes, you don't want flat. And unless your speakers have a lot of output naturally at 20Hz, don't ask them to. Boosts in the lower octave can overtax the drivers and your amp, to the detriment of the rest of the spectrum. |
That article suggests doing some things I haven't figured out how to do. For example, how do you overlay multiple target curves? And create Par EQ settings (he says do it in feddback eliminator) and overlay them as well? |
Another question. Does it matter if the DEQ is before the pre-amp or after? Right now it's between my pre-amp & amp. I'm not using it as a DAC because I don't want to mess with the amazing sound from my Sony/TRL 900. But if I move it before my pre-amp I could use it as a DAC for my satellite receiver and my Sqeezebox. Any reason NOT to move it upstream? |
If you use DEQ2496's analog output, you are using its DAC. If you use its analog input, you are also using its ADC (maybe the same CODEC chip as the DAC).
Only way to get around its DAC is using it in the digital domain only -- digital in and out, with an external DAC. |
Ecruz...If you move it between the CDP and the preamp you can't use it for any other source. If you do move it up you should try feeding it digital from your CDP. Your output from the Behringer will be through its D/A anyway, so why run the signal through an extra D/A in the Sony and an A/D in the Behringer? |
I thought if I used analog in and analog out I was bi-passing the DAC.
Eldartford-
If I move it before the pre-amp I can only use one source? I can't hook up something to the analog in and something else to the digital in? I can't switch between 2 or 3 inputs? |
I just realized how stupid my last post was. Hello, it's a DIGITAL eq. |
Ecruz, I would move it upstream. But as far as "I don't want to mess with the amazing sound from my Sony/TRL 900," as Kenn and El have pointed out, you already have messed with it by interposing the Behringer in the chain. There is no way around this, regardless of whether the Behringer is fore or aft of the preamp. But, having messed with it, if it still sounds amazing to you, you might as well mess with it some more and explore your options.
I have two digital sources going into the Behringer, a CDP into the Behringer's optical input and a Monarchy DIP (which itself has two sources, so I guess that's three altogether into the Behringer) into the AES/EBU input. I select between the two by using two programmed presets that differ only in terms of the input source. That may be the kind of arrangement you are thinking about?
Drubin, I haven't been able to read through that article without my attention wandering, but I don't think the author was talking about overlaying target curves. I think he was suggesting choosing an all-purpose target curve (even flat) for autoeq and then overlaying other programmed "psychoacoustic" or "personal" presets at the playback stage to try to improve on the sound. Then, if you wanted, you could use the knowledge of which of these overlays produces a better response to set a new target curve and redo the autoeq process. Actually, this is the approach that I used--started flat (except at the low end since my speakers are short of full range) and then overlaid adjustments from there. |
I have not used the I/O selection capability, but from what I read in the manual (page 13) you could select either the digital or analog input, so you could accomodate one additional source. Try it. |
Ecruz, I posted my last post before your last showed up. Yes, you can select among one analog and two digital inputs with the Behringer. You can do it by using the I/O switch, or as I do, by programming different presets that differ only by input source, which is a cinch to do. I am wondering why I do it that way... I think it's because then most of what I do with the Behringer on a day-to-day basis is accomplished through one menu, the program menu, and I don't have to jump around from menu to menu.
It's not as simple using source selector controls on a preamp, but it's not bad, either. |
Twice now, my Behringer has emmitted a LOUD pop and then shows an error on the display. This has only happened when there was no music playing.
My pre-amp is tube, so I turn it off when I'm not listening. I leave the Behringer and my ss amp on continuously. Both times it happened there was nothing else on, TV, DVD player, nothing. My system is on a dedicated circuit and the DEQ is plugged in to a conditioner.
Any ideas? |
Ecruz...What does the error message say? I never saw one.
I would try removing the line conditioner and see if the problem still occurs. |
It says something like "please shutdown and restart, error 7". I'm sure about the "error 7" but I can't remember exactly what the first part says.
I had read somewhere that there were some quality issues with the Behringer, just wondering if this is related? I will contact Behringer directly and see what they say. |
Ecruz...Seems to me that a "quality issue" would show up all the time. I rather suspect there is some kind of power or ground disturbance that the Behringer is picking up. Sometimes an input wire from a turned-off source can be noisy...noise that goes away when the source is powered up. In my experience this noise has been Hum, but the Behringer A/D could get all confused trying to interpret it as digital data. |
Ecruz, I've seen that error message a couple of times. It seems to result from bad input of some kind, for example when I turned on my upsampler (in the chain before the Behringer) with the Behringer powered up. I'm guessing that with the preamp off and thus an open circuit to the input, some noise is being picked up on the input causing the problem.
Rich |
Here's the response I got from Behringer
Hi Eric and thanks for writing to us!
First I would recommend turning OFF the power amp (to prevent any more potential 'pop' sounds while you are troubleshooting and turning things on/off from reaching your loudspeakers), and then attempt a factory reset on the unit by the following steps:
1) press & hold keys "compare" and "memory" during power up.
2) confirm reset by pressing "OK"
Then leave the unit on for an extended period of time, such as overnight or while you are away at work for the day, to try to reproduce the error message symptom (again you may want to leave the power amp turned off during your testing to avoid the possibility of the 'pop' being amplified to the speakers again).
If the error message still occurs after performing the factory reset procedure above, that could indicate a DSP error within the unit, and I would recommend contacting the dealer to see about making arrangements to exchange the unit for a replacement at your earliest convenience. Or,
if exchanging the unit for a replacement through the retail dealer is not possible, please use the instructions below to get in touch with our warranty service department and we will be glad to help you make arrangements directly through BEHRINGER.
|
I read somwhere that Behringer service was poor. I guess that advice was all wet. |
"Sometimes an input wire from a turned-off source can be noisy...noise that goes away when the source is powered up..."
"I'm guessing that with the preamp off and thus an open circuit to the input, some noise is being picked up on the input causing the problem."
I bet it is something along these lines. I'll keep you posted if there are any further developements. |
I just developed a new problem. I installed a Squeezebox, connected via ethernet. Runs great, no problems, until I turn on the Behringer, then there is a loud buzzing. As soon as I unplug the Squeezebox, the buzzing goes away. It doesn't seem to matter where the Squeezebox or the Behringer are plugged in, same conditioner, same outlet, different conditioners, different outlets, if they are both running, there is buzzing. Also doesn't matter if the Squeezebox goes into the pre via anaolg connections or into the Behringer via digital. Both on, buzzing. One or the other on, no buzzing.
Any ideas? |
Ecruz...What is a Squeezebox? |
Try Toslink connection to see if it makes any difference. |
Eldartford-
http://www.slimdevices.com/
The connection doesn't matter. It starts buzzing as soon as the Sqeezebox is plugged in to the outlet, even if it's connected to the pre-amp and not the DEQ. |
Ecruz...The Behringer has a "hard bypass"...you can turn its power off, and the signal will pass through it without any analog or digital processing. Try leaving all the wires connected and shutting the Behringer power off and see if the problem goes away. |
It does go away if the Behringer is off. |
Ecruz...What if the Squeezebox is turned on and in the room but not connected to the audio system? It apparently radiates a signal, and maybe that interferes with the Behringer.
Why don't you talk to the Squeezebox service people. |
If it's not connected to the pre or the Behringer, but it is turned on, there is no buzzing. If it's connected to the pre with the Behringer turned off there's no buzzing. If it's connected to the pre with the BEhringer turned on there is buzzing. Obviously the Behringer is picking up something and sending it to the amp, I just don't know how to isolate and remove it. |
Ok guys,
I finally got mine y'day and am trying to get it up and running. I hit auto eq and i see the process going on page 3. The pink noise is playing, but i do not see a db reading on the Behringer. I read where Eldartford set it at 85 db on the Behringer. Where is this measurement?
Also, my levels are hitting the top of the meter on the left hand side. Is this a problem?
When i hit auto eq, i see the circles moving. But some of them are still at +10 to +15 after a couple of minutes in "fast" mode. Is this a problem? Will it eventually get to flat? What setting do i leave it on when i am finished setting the auto eq?
Thanks.
Kale |
Streetdaddy...I realize that the white noise SPL is not displayed on the autoeq screen. The 85 dB (approx) that I suggest is based on measurement using my Radio Shack meter. I don't think that the exact level is critical, but to minimize the effect of ambient noise it should be loud. But not too loud, and if the bar level indicators on the left of the screen are hitting the top this may be the case.
Are you sure that uou have selected the mic input to be equalized?
Keep fooling around and you will get it figured out. |
Streetdaddy said-
"When i hit auto eq, i see the circles moving. But some of them are still at +10 to +15 after a couple of minutes in "fast" mode. Is this a problem? Will it eventually get to flat?"
The "circles" go where they need to, to make the sound flat at the mic. They don't move back to flat on the display.
Not the most elegant explanation, but I think you can see what I mean. |
