Worked Backwards and Would like to Hear Suggestions on Speakers
I did the opposite most folks on forum suggested. I already had Bose 901 Series VI speakers but built my system around them. My setup includes Mcintosh MC501's, C2500 Preamp, Thurman Conditioner, Cary 100 DAC, which I'm selling, Oppo 105D, and MusicHall 7.1 turntable. I use all Cardas Golden XLR Cables except for Bose Equalizer which I use Cardas Golder RCA's. I mostly stream using dedicated MacBook 13" retina..
The Bose sound really good but would like suggestions for better. My range? Not sure, I can spend up to 10K but would rather stay in the 3-6K range.
the 901s had an ability to do something that other speakers at that time could not do (tho they lagged in other criteria compared to some)
if they have been refurbished recently then try out some Maggies - used 3.7i's can be had for $4k - new is %6k to $6,400 for various wood strip and cloth options
if not, you could do that as a low-cost 'upgrade'
if your amps will drive a $10k speaker well, then you can achieve stunning SQ
Ki3 bigger maggies various others...
but I'd reserve some $$ for room treatments and maybe a few hundred for an isolation transformer, and some galvanic isolation devices
@tomic601 Mmmm, an MBL. I haven't heard them, but I think they would be a pretty sweet loudspeaker. @randy, I agree that Maggie's would be a good way to go, as well. @OP, I'll put in my 2 cents and give Vandersteen a plug.
The Bose were pretty sweet during the 70's-80's(another guy in my dorm had 301's that I liked alot), but technology has improved and speakers have come a long way. The closest you can get to them(901's) would be the Ohm or Shahinian- plus you would probably get better bass, as well.
With your equipment, I think you can safely run just about any speaker out there. Though if you choose a low impedance speaker (and, maybe if you don't), you could buy a pair of Zero Transformers to help your amp. In any case, I recommend that you try to audition as many speakers as you can. If you let us know where you reside, we can give you some dealers to contact. Bob
Each time I entertain upgrading an area of any system I put together, I view it as an area that should be in fact, upgraded. Not, merely a side ways step.
That said, I’d want to look into obtaining speakers that could be a better representation of the entire bandwidth and not just a portion thereof.
I’m embarrassed to say how long ago I heard the first 901s. I was summarily impressed. Back then. Since, I’ve been impressed by many more loudspeakers and have come to a conclusion of what I want from them.
As said herein, room acoustic treatments do indeed matter. However, bass is an area which usually requires the most attention. Naturally, it follows one should have speakers which reproduce that section of the bandwidth well, or have subs relegated to that job. I did not notice any mention of subs. Room size. Etc. going forward preffs as to remaining with something more akin to the 901s voice or stepping into a new world with these next choices as the Ops preffs Or intentions.
Keeping to the monitor or stand mount esthetic, well, the slections are mind boggeling. Dropping six or seven grand on a pr of monitors ought to really step up the sound, as long as the bottom octaves are not being sought in this speaker swapping out effort. Whoa.
Six grand in used monitor land is serious territory!
However, in the floor standing standard conventional vein, going used, and seeing as how power seems not in question with Mac 501s pushing things, and keeping with pre-owned units, the choices are vast.
Without preffs being named, I’d say see what you can do with a pr of Eggelston Andrea’s IIs. Everything across the bandwidth of the sound will improve. Bass. Imaging. Top end response. It would be a quite significant move up the food chain. More of a night and day affair.
Dyn Audio is another that ought to please. Its tweeter is a top notch one if it is an isotary or iteration thereof and would work well with the 501s.
Jamo is another loudspeaker I’d recommend with those amps. Like maybe the ref 800s. Sonus Faber should too. Focus Whispers could be an excellent choice if Jamos aren’t found. Former Wilson Sophia’ ii or maybe, IIIs could be another righteous option.
If panels are a serious thought, look to Martin Logans with active woofers given the power you have on tap. A more full range solution than the 3.7 Maggies.
What ever the choice, IMHO I’d stick with speakers that have an easy top end so long as the 501s are in the mix.
A good bit depends on as has been said here, the type and esthetic of the kind you seek, the room size, your own listening preffs in terms of the presentation you enjoy most, or are trying to acquire with this next speaker move.
Installing fuller range speakers will then enable your views to broaden as to what your room needs in order to allow your speakers to really blossom as you should then have far more bass than the 901s provide..
Mmmm, I think tomic601 wanted to refer to the German Physiks radiators. The German Tekniks look like they'd do great at heating up the room but not with sheer spl...btu, yes... ;) But, as with the 'small MBL', bring $....the more the better... There's the HHR's for a 'classic' Walsh...
yes i did, thanks for taking the heat ! my thinking is if he likes the omni pattern, get an omni the smaller mbl are an entry into this and can sometimes be had under the top of his budget also you could get Vandersteen 5a and turn the rear firing tweeter on !
Ohm Walsh's would be a GREAT upgrade over the Bose's! And NO need to add a subwoofer with them! I speak from experience, having owned a pair for 10+ years. Room-filling sound and 3-D imaging!
Try tekton speakers either the Double Impact if you have room,,, for small room ,their electron or monitors, this are the star or rising star new product , read the thread on double impact or the monitor..,,I have one why I know...
+2 on the Ohm Walsh suggestion. Depending on the size of your room, these should come in well within your budget. I have been happily running a pair of Ohm Walsh 2000s for about 8 years (although I do run them with subs, because, well, I am a bass-head!).
Thanks everyone! With all the suggestions so far, I'm looking at the Tekton Double Impact Speakers. I've read several reviews and these must be amazing compared to others at 2-5 times it's price of $3k. Anyone have an opinion about these speakers? They're fairly new in the audio world.
Roddyboy, After owning and loving speakers from Vandersteen, Magnepan, Revel and Legacy I'm enjoying the Tekton DI's more than any speaker I've owned. Seemless driver integration, dynamics a plenty, the best bass I've heard and a realist midrange with detailed and airy highs. For me they create a deep wall of musical realism from floor to ceiling all across my room. Yet as much as I love the DI's I'm replacing them......with the DI SE's ; )
Does the Tekton DI sound good when not sitting directly in front? and how does it compare to GoldenEar Triton 1’s?
I can’t tell/write much about Tekton because I’ve never seen or heard a pair. I can tell you anything you would like to know about the Triton One though. Typically, Golden Ear doesn’t get all that much love on this site. But I’d highly recommend Golden Ear (former T1 owner, current T Ref owner).
Here is what my dealer had to say (back in June, their web site may have changed since then) about Tekton.
"This Tekton designer is stating obvious facts that are known by all loudspeaker designers, that is why multi way speakers are around. The smaller midranges and tweeters are lower in mass and handle the upper harmonics of instruments. His stating that a guitar producing a 41hz note is only being reproduced by a subwoofer with a 200-300 gram cone is totally false, the upper harmonics of that guitar note are being reproduced by the midrange and tweeter which are much lower in mass and able to reproduce the harmonics. He also doesn’t state what his speaker does that is different to try and diminish the mass of the drivers, they look pretty typical to me. I think this is pretty much snake oil."
walterzlife---Whenever I see a comment such as yours, I can’t help but ask: How can you be so very, very sure? Have you heard all the ESL speakers available today? The Music Reference, for instance? All the SoundLab models? The Sanders 10e? All the ribbon and magnetic-planar speakers available? I could never make a statement such as yours, but that’s just me ;-).
gdhal - With all respect to your dealer, has he heard the Tektons? I have not, so I have no idea if they are any good or not. But I do understand the need for speaker designers not to talk too much about their "special sauce", especially if it is not protected by a patent. Speaker designing is as much art as science, and, perhaps, Tekton's designer can take ordinary drivers, crossovers and cabinets, and fashion them into something that performs quite well compared to other speakers. But for a B&M dealer to criticize a speaker he has not heard and could never become a dealer for is, well, a bit suspect.
Hello guys, we have a lot of experience in the world of high performance loudspeakers, our shop sells, Paradigm Persona, Legacy, Kef, Dali, PSB, Gradient, Cabasse and we have heard or at one time or another sold or setup most of the major competitors.
Here is the skinny on Tekton, the DI are pretty amazing, especially for the money, so far we have heard them on two occasions with totally different gear and came away both impressed as well as still having a few reservations.
Eric Alexanders fans are a bit too far I have heard numerous sets of speakers that they are being traded in for, and no I wouldn’t trade in many of the $30k speakers for them, howerver, the Di are pretty remarkable and for $4,300.00 DI with upgrades and a nicer finish represent an incredible value, I too was very sceptical about the validity of the patent.
The proof is in the listening, On both occasions we felt that the speakers had a fantastic midrange and good imaging and superb bass, the only issue was top end resolution they were a bit too polite for me and did not have enough air and upper octave clarity, but other then that wow and for the money these things crush the Golden ears, Vandys, and most of the affordable stuff.
We still prefer the Legacy Signatures at $7k which too our ears and setups sound very similar to the Tektons but have a bit more life and air in the top end, but you still have to spend $2k+ to get a better speakers.
We are pursuing a dealership with the good folks at Tekton to be able to offer the Tekton DI SE versions as well they are that good!
Other great $10k speakers are the Paradigm Persona 3F which have some of the most realistic imaging and resolution, they can benefit from a good sub, but this is another milestone product with two of the finest high resolution drivers you can get their midrange clarity and image holography are spooky when setup with good equipment, they would also compliment your warm sounding setup of Mcintosh gear and Cardas cables which are two very laid back brands, you need to move into a brighther cleaner digital front end so not to make your system too rolled off sounding, Mytek is bright and clean, so if the T+A Dac 8DSD which isn’t bright but is a imaging and resolution machine. I would stay away from Schitt, PS Audio, and a few others which tend to be also very warm sounding.
As per Mac’’s comment about Tekton vs Legacy many of the Legacy owners have the older versions which are crushed by the new versions with the Heil drivers.
As per electrostatics vs dyanmic argument, none of the panels we have owned Quads, and Maggies, sold Martin Logans, Apogees, none of them sound as realistic in terms of dynamic slam and image size vs a conventional speaker system what you get in lack of boxiness and midrange clarity you lose in other areas, image size, midbass punch, and in the case of the ML they are a bit rollled off about 15k same with the Quads.
The reason is called diapole canceillation, and equil and oppostite wave form cancels out, which means a diapole has nothing to push against. this leads to poor dynamics, especially when pushed hard and a image which makes musicians appear larger then life.
As per Omni vs Non Omni many old school audiophiles loved the Bose 901 becasue they sounded difussive vs direct raditors at the time which didn’t image particuarly well, in the 70’s and 80’s you had many loudspeakers with wide baffles that coupled with time and phase issues created a flat sounding boxy sound.
Most of todays’ best conventional loudspeakers image very well and totally dissapear into the sound stage so the reasoning that an Omni is better is kind of specious reasoning.
All Omni speakers have dificulties in sculpting believable images, most of the time the Omni must be pulled out far into the room, and then you still have vocalists who sound too big or appear to come farther to the sides then what would sound normal to most people very technicolor but not neccasarily believable sound.
Roddyboy needs to go hear some of these contentders for himself
If you are on the East Coast we have many of the best contenders out there in affordable superb speakers.
@roddyboy You really ought to go to the Tekton DI thread. Don't get hung up on the Tekton patent verbage or the issue that they blow away other speakers costing far more. (However, in fact, multiple owners have sold far more expensive speakers and kept the DI's.) The bottom line is this--for me, I don't know of another speaker that does so much for so little. Especially if the standard finish is acceptable the value here is incredibly high.
Tyler Acoustics. Hand-built in Kentucky. Phenomenal sound. He only sells direct. I have Tyler's Highland H-1s and have referred several friends to him and they are as over the moon about the sound as I am. Very efficient so they run well with tube amps, and no need for a sub-woof. Great guy to deal with.
IMO,if you can go 10 grand i would buy used and save on the 50% deprecation right as you unpack them.At that price you can basically get 25 grand speakers so id say your sitting pretty.I would not suggest Dynaudio as your amps are to slow and dont mate well.Been there myself and failed miserably.If your keeping the 501s , although i wouldn't as there are better amps i would get on the Mac sites and inquire there.You will get much better suggestions on what mates.
As I shop, and trust me there's a lot to research, but someone brought up Mcintosh MC501's are "slow" and not all speakers mate well because of this! No-one else have ever brought this up, so what does "slow" mean? and does it really make a difference with speakers I choose?
I think back in day a lot used the 802d with mac gear,i guess it really depends on what your seeking in sound. For me those 2 brands i would never want.I prefer speed,accuracy,detail etc which neither have been accused of or shouldn't. The 802d was a popular speaker no doubt but for 10 grand you can do much much better IMO.
Don't discount Wilson-Benesch among the other suggestions. Check them out, as they receive many top awards at shows and quite a few "jaw-dropping" responses in my listening room!
I would suggest you try to listen to Vandersteen, as well. Magnepan would be a second choice- and would probably be close to the Bose in terms of the diffuse sound. Bob
It's not the diffuse sound I want from the speakers, it's trying to make up for the diffuse sound by finding speakers which may help with finding more clarity and high ends, if that makes sense..
Around 2 years ago I went from new B&W 802 D2’s to used Wilson Sophia 2’s at half the cost and was much happier with the Wilson Audio purchase. No idea how they sound on McIntosh gear though. I was using BAT, Bryston Cubed and Chord at the time. Almost anything would be an improvement over 901’s so audition what you can in your budget. I sold my Marten Miles 5 for about $6,500 last year so if you could find that model or Django XL’s they are worth a listen. They provide beautiful detail and speed without being hard on the ears.
blindjim, I looked into Eggelston Andrea’s IIs, Former Wilson Sophia’ ii, and Focus Whispers and I have to say the reviews were impressive and their around my price range. They also all weigh around 200lbs a piece. Can you tell me more about the JAMO's? What models were you talking about? The JAMOs I saw was only a fraction of the cost of those above which made me curious.
James, I'm glad you brought this up! I'm also interested in the B&W 802 D2s, so in your setup, how much happier are you with the Wilsons purchase scale 1-5? and what was it about the Wilsons you liked over the B&Ws?
you can get a used pair of Vandersteen 5a want diffuse turn on rear tweeter want other turn it off also you get powered sub 11 bands of room taming analog EQ and you do not need a chiropractor ‘s dream MC501..... to run them although they will sing with that amp used on agon $6-7 at tge low end, 10 ish thru a Vandy dealer
Right now I decided on the Vandersteen Model 5, but have one question; how labor intensive having to replace batteries or other areas of the speakers am I looking at? I'm ready to pull the trigger but any feedback would be appreciated..
roddy - I don't own 5's, but I have a pair of the battery-biased M-HP5 crossovers. The batteries are soldiered in for better sound. If you are good at soldiering, you can do this yourself. If you are a klutz like me, a dealer or a capable friend will have to do that. The good news is that you can use fresh lithium batteries with a 10-year life span, so you only need do this once each decade.
congrats i had Vandy 5a for many happy years and now 7 mk2 you got good advice on the batts but Vandersteen located in Calif will turn them around quickly for you. IF you want an additional 3 years ( on top of 7 w factory duracell ) send them the Li batts along with your filters
setup is critical you must run vandertones and use Radio Shack analog meter to set the bass a local dealer can help you also
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
