"Best"(anything) = SUBJECTIVE(your taste) & VARIABLE(it's application)
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Dear chakster, I don't believe that you ever owned one of those ADC 25/26and 27. I just listened to my ADC 26 and am very much impressed. Never heard Portuguese guitar more natural sounding before. Speaking in your terms never seen such low mass cantilever/stylus combo. My only problem is light hum which I only get with MM carts and never with my MC carts. I deed try everything but alas. My only new idea is to connect ground of both cart connectors together. Ground is an real enigma but looks very simple because everything is connected with ''the same'' ground. But before trying I hope to hear from my comembers if anybody has try this ''solution''. |
Sorry chakster, One should not trust anyone. I like you very much but according to Raul I own the ''best ever'' ADC 26 which is according to you not only ''cheap'' but also mediocre. It is , obviously, in my own interest to believe Raul more than you. Besides I own about 40 MM carts thanks Raul's carts of the week , the months and now of all years. |
@nandric the price for any ADC would never be higher than $200 today, there are plenty of them available everyday. The exception is for rare Astrion MM with Sapphire cantilever (but an average sound) and the latest TRX IM 1,2,3 series designed for them by Nakatsuka-San (now Zyx) with Titanium, Beryllium or Sapphire cantilevers (i know you got some of them). |
@chakster , Thanks ! As I stated before you ar the fastest learning member of our forum. ''Our encyclopedia'' so to speak. No need to search on Google (grin). Curious how our brain works. Anyway my. I have no idea how my ADC 25 sounded but well its price back then. It was my own present to myself for my Law degree. The price was ''astronomic'' for a student: 250 Dutch Gulden (= German mark). My scholarship was 200. With the usual inflation the present price should be above 1000 euro. I am not aware that you belong to the new Russian rich and don't understand why you call those ADC' s ''cheap''. I intend to try my ADC 26 today. |
@nandric There is nothing special about those cartridges if you will look at the specs and diamond/cantilever types. ADC 26 is very cheap cartridge from the 60’s, 25/27 designed before XLM series (which is crap too) IM type cartridge with the same standard as ADC - 25, equipped with standard elliptical needle only. By adopting a newly developed magnetic circuit, we have acquired broad band reproduction, light needle pressure and racing ability. The ADC - 25, ADC - 26, ADC - 27 and the ADC - X series have stylus compatibility respectively, and it is possible to upgrade by replacing the stylus. Model IM type cartridge frequency band 10 Hz to 24 kHz ± 2 dB output4.5 mV (5.5 cm / sec) Separation30 dB (50 Hz to 15 kHz) compliance50 × 10 -6 cm / dyne Tracking angle15 ° Impedance47 kΩ Tip0.3 x 0.7 mil (R-26) Stylus pressure0.5 g to 1.25 g Own weight 9 g ADC 27 is next model from the 60s/70s: IM type cartridge which aimed at cost reduction based on ADC - 25, 26. The magnet that was attached to the conventional stylus assembly is embedded in the body at the bottom of the assembly. In addition, a magnet yoke is installed in the assembly and it is made to be magnetized when it is set. As a result, the assembly can be easily inserted and removed, there is no excess or deficiency of insertion, and the magnetic force always holds the cantilever in the center. Because the main body of ADC - 27 is common design with ADC - 25, it is possible to use it the same way as ADC - 25 by adding stylus of R - 252 or R - 253. Model IM type cartridge frequency band 10 Hz to 22 kHz ± 2 dB output 4.5 mV (5.5 cm / sec) Separation 30 dB (50 Hz to 15 kHz) compliance 40 × 10 -6 cm / dyne Tracking angle15 ° Impedance 47 kΩ Tip 0.3 x 0.7 mil (R-27) Stylus pressure 0.5 g to 1.5 g Own weight 9 g |
Hums proudness of ownership is a myth. I knew that I own Stanton 981 ''somewhere'' . I own many boxes with parts because my mom learned me never to trouw away anything. The motto ''search and you will find'' seems to work but only sometime. I, alas, deed not find Stanton 981 but , to my big surprise , ADC 26 . No idea when and how I got this one so, obviously , I can impossible be proud of something that I had no idea to own. I am ,alas, not a rich guy. So you can imagine how many things the rich own about which they have no idea that they own. I assume that Hume was an poor bastard otherwise he would never make such nonsense. There is this, say ''concept'' of saturation. Bread for example. The necessary condition for survival. But nobody buy more than can eat. Those who can afford much more than bread buy watches and cars. The curious thing is that they are not able to invent something else. what kind of proudness is involved by coping others? Anyway despite the fact that I owned ADC 25 in the 70is I then moved to MC kinds in order not to stay behind. But I am still confused not with the nomenclature like by AT's but with the styli . The assumption that people can remember colors better than names is curious . Anyway I can't remember any color in connection with stylus kind or shape . My ADC 26 is white but those for 25 are black. Is there any difference between them except the color? |
Dear @tzh21y : ADC/Sonus came from the same designer but the latest ADC. I own and owned almost all Pritchard designs and all are very good but the best of all those is the ADC 26/27. @schubert , you can try your XLM with a medium mass tonearm and will " sing ". @dgarretson that is a very good tonearm by the AT group, I owned and will match very good your Sonus cartridge. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R: |
The lower frequencies continue to improve as I approach about 20 hours or so. The sound is addicting from this cartridge. The naturalness of timbre and overall presentation of music is just great for a cartridge that cost me about 300 bucks. I have spent more than 2 grand on cartridges that did not give me this much satisfaction. |
Those members who complain not to be able to find the cart they want are only pretending. I wanted to help and offered my whole MM collection (+ 40 samples) but nobody was really interested. If one is reluctant to buy from an co-member then they obviously prefer some unknown sellers. I hereby withrow my offer. |
Hard to do better than the Signet TK-7 Series of MMs.....👍 I don’t remember if the TKN14 is the No.2 or No.3.....? If you look at the underside of the stylus assembly you should see the No.2 or 3 embossed. If you have the No.3 stylus....it is the Shibata and it effectively makes your cartridge a TK-7SU...... |
Update: Have been using Ortofon 2M Black while waiting (forever) for an Audio Note IQ3 to arrive and have been really enjoying it. Bought a Signet TK7E today with the TKN14 stylus for my uncle for Christmas and decided to mount it. Haven't stop listening since. I'm pretty sure I like it better than the 2M Black. Better bass and vocals are cleaner and warmer. Doesn't handle busy passages quite as well but also overall less edgy. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to find him a replacement gift. |
Not true. Back on Oct 27 I made two posts in this thread singing the praises of the Music Maker III. Excellent cartridge that deserves much more press / praise than it receives. |
This is strictly opinion, and the only facts I have to confirm my opinion, are when the very rich got much richer by manipulating the commodities markets, and made an astronomical amount of money off the price of food and gas. For some reason, the folks here seem to know only "audiophilia"; but be that as it may, it wasn't until after the rich got much richer; that they had so much money, they began to spend it on the most ridiculous stuff, like 33,000 dollar interconnects, and all sorts of stuff that was the most expensive, with no regard to value. As if, somehow, the most expensive must be the best For years I came into contact with rich people through real estate, and they always had an eye out for "value"; they wouldn't buy stuff unless it was worth what they paid for it, and if you recall the most expensive gear in the past was worth the high price, not some totally ridiculous price that was all out of whack. Now it seems that almost every major high end audio brand has something that fits that bill of having some item which has no connection to value. Before now, Grado's products seemed to be related to value, but if his competitors are selling items that have no relation to value, why shouldn't he get some of that "easy money". |
Has anyone heard this Grado. No way I can afford it https://gradolabs.com/cartridges/lineage-series/item/87-epoch |
@orpheus10 Since there is no way we can compare the Stantons and Pickerings to the Grado I can compare the best Stanton, Pickering and Grado in my system everyday if i want to, believe it or not. |
@orpheus10 sorry, but i have to say that you don’t know what you’re talking about and you don’t even read what i have posted many times for you, professional Stanton is like professional Grado cheap models, nothing special indeed. Not sure if you ever heard about Grado DJ100i and Grado DJ200i designed for deejays today. Every respected company including Grace, Audio-Technica, Technics, Empire, Ortofon, Shure, Denon made professional series for deejays/radiostations etc. These carts are well known for durability, but not for the best sound quality, definitely not for audiophiles, they are cheap and affordable for anyone, normally under $150 , They are all comes with bonded spherical or elliptical styli (easy to replace for low cost). But the Stanton Pickering models i have mentioned here as the reference are very expensive cartridges, designed for audiophiles, for critical listening sessions. Have you ever heard about Stereohedron stylus profile? This is very expensive stylus profile invented by Stanton (nude diamond). I don’t understand why you always mixing together professional cartridges and hi-end cartridges. Two different world! I have Joseph Grado Signature XTZ model considered the best Grado ever made, but Stanton top models are better cartridges. |
Chakster, and Lewm, that catalog confirms some things I stated awhile back about jukeboxes. It said the Stanton cartridges were made especially for broadcast and recording professionals. Jukeboxes that went into the lounges in the early 60's were installed by professionals. Some people distinguish "high end" by the names of the components, I distinguish high end by the sound that I hear. During the early 60's, the record you punched on the jukebox could be seen playing through the front glass; it was a 45, and I saw a Stanton Cartridge with a brush on the front end playing the record. Every thing in those jukeboxes was about as high end as you could get at that time, including the tube electronics, and speakers. That was because the sound of the music emanating from them kept the quarters rolling in big time; they made a lot of money; enough for gangsters to fight over. I have an excellent audio memory, and I demand that my cartridge reproduce some of the "nuances" I heard from records I played at that time. One of those records was "Blue Funk" by Ray Charles and Milt Jackson; this tune has nuances that only the very best rigs can reproduce, and the jukeboxes I fed quarters certainly reproduced those nuances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHold6ylvEM All of the artists on that record are the very best jazz masters of that time, including Ray Charles, who is known for everything except jazz. Check "Skeeter Best" on guitar, beginning at 6:01; between 6:50 all the way to the end is where it really gets "funky"; those nuances are what I demand of a cartridge; but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Music is what it's all about. |
Orpheus, The best of the Stantons/Pickerings (which are really analogous to each other) are from the 70s and perhaps 80s. We had nothing like them in the 50s, for sure. Stereo came in only in the late 50s and didn't take over until the mid-60s. You are making these cartridges older than they really are. I agree with Chakster: Stanton 881S, 980/981LZS, 980/981HZS, and 100WS, and probably the analogous Pickering series, from XVS3000 through XVS7500, are the best of that bunch and very competitive still today, with anything. |
@orpheus10 I was born in the 70s, so i missed that Shure and Empire, but re-discovered the best vintage MM/MI cartridges not so long ago after trying multi thousand MCs. Please look at this Stanton catalog, download it here Stanton 881s, 881s mkII, 980, 981 and finally CS-100 WOS this is all you need to know about Stanton, the rest is just crap. You can’t go wrong with any of these models, but prepare to pay $400-1000 for any of them in New Old Stock condition nowadays. Amazing MM cartridges with Stereohedron nude diamonds (one of the best stylus profile ever made). The Pickering models from XSV-3000 and higher numbers also comes with Stereohedron diamonds, same as Stanton, also amazing cartridges, same price range. All of them designed by Walter O. Stanton who passed away in 2001. He sold the company long time ago, it’s called now The Stanton Groud and only manufacture cheap gear and heap carts for professional market (djs and radiostations). No more Stereohedrom styli or anything good from that company under new ownerships. Why people are paying so much for rare Stanton/Pickering top models from the late 70s and early 80s? Because they are superb! |
@orpheus10 I was referring to the old Stantons and Pickerings that Chakster often speaks of; they were the best at that time, meaning the 50’s and 60’s. No, i’m talking about that huge steel needles for 78 rpm gramophones that we have to change after each side. Seriously, the best Stanton & Pickering made from the late ’70s to mid ’80s ONLY! Why you always come up with that ’50s stuff when i'm talking about Stanton? C’mon, i don’t use any cartridges made earlier than 1977. This is MM era if you want to know. If you like ’50s sound stick to the Ortofon SPU MC mono. |
Once upon a time, I bought everything my favorite reviewer at "Stereophile" recommended that I needed. That worked out very well, until we got to cartridges. I did not like the cartridge he recommended, and it was even one of the favorites on this forum. That's when I discovered how finicky I am in regard to a cartridge, as everyone else should be. It's taken a long time and a lot of experimentation to discover what I'm looking for in a cartridge. Since further experimentation will be both time consuming and expensive, (don't have either in abundance) I'll be restricted to Grado and Koetsu when finances allow. This means I'll have to take everyone's word for everything else. |
When bringing up those "old" MM cartridges we were half way into MONO; it's for sure we weren't heavy into "sound stage". My point is; these new MM and MI cartridges can produce a holographic sound stage, and from the reviews I read, are comparable to the MC's, but less expensive. When you get into the MM's over 1K, you actually save money, because a cheaper phono will be quite sufficient, and the results might be better in some ways than the MC's. |
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I'm somewhat satisfied with the Ortofon Blue that came with my table. For a cheap cart it's not bad. Highs are crisp and lows have great balance and punch. It's lacking in the mid range area though. I'm looking at upgrading in the near future and on the short list is the Ortofon Black and the top of the line Audio Technica dual magnet. Don't have part number handy for the AT but it has the same Shibata stylus as the black. |
