Cables more hype than value?

If you buy cables based on hype, it's usually not a good value.
But if cables do what you want them to do, then only you can determine their value.

There is a wide variety of opinions out there. What do you think?

The proverbial "can of worms" has been opened once again.

Yes - total hype. There is nothing better than 10-gauge Belden. Anyone who buys expensive cable is just being taken in by the hype and nobody out there can actually hear anything I can't hear. People who make expensive cables are thieves and people who buy them are just fools with money who are trying to show off. I've done A/B comparisons using a mint copy of "Lord Sutch and His Heavy Friends" played through Paradigm Studio 20 bookshelf speakers and I heard no difference between the Belden and Stealth Dream (10K) speaker cables.

Next up, speakers - more hype than value?

Then, turntables - more hype than value? Then, cartridges - more hype than value?

'there is nothing better then 10-gauge Belden'....i'll assure you that with a very good system different cables DO make a difference.anyone who says they don't either can't hear or doesn't have a system that is resolving enough.

OK, I am going to play cyber-psychoanalyst. Tobb, in spite of the fact that you have been a member here for over ten years, you have not previously taken part in discussions about cables. So, I will give you the benefit of the doubt as far as believing that you are not simply trying to stir up controversy about this "beaten to death" subject; on the other hand, after ten years, it's unlikely that you haven't gathered enough info on the subject to, at least, know where to look for opinions. Nonetheless, I will assume that your query is an honest one.

So, in the spirit of trying to be helpful, and in case you don't recognize Chayro's (hope you don't mind, Chayro) sarcasm, look at his posting history about cables. You will not only see that his response here is, in fact, simply sarcasm, but you will find some genuinely good advise.

Now, if you care to also play analyst, you will know my stance on the subject by this response.

Good luck.

Could it be a variation of this:

Mass hysteria manifesting as collective symptoms of disease is sometimes referred to as mass psychogenic illness or epidemic hysteria. Mass hysteria typically begins when an individual becomes ill or hysterical during a period of stress.[6] After this initial individual shows symptoms, others begin to manifest similar symptoms.

Besides, peer pressure and wanting to belong to an elite group is a factor. Who wants to ADMIT he can't hear what EVERYONE else says they can hear? My system can resolve as well as yours!!! I have golden ears also!!! I am just as much an audiophile as anyone else!!! And so on and so on.

I own Belden 10awg.

Cheers

02-17-13: Calloway said:

"....i'll assure you that with a very good system different cables DO make a difference ..
"...doesn't have a system that is resolving enough. .."
+++++++++++++++

+ 1 (with emphasis added)

since better has not been denoted, it is impossible to reolve this issue

who ever says such and such cable is the best, realy means, in the subjective sense, that the cable in question is preferred over other cables heard by the one making the statement,

since it is impossible to hear every cable, take such statements as anecdotal and not very useful.

a very VERY long time ago i compared a $30 pair of OFC cables (rca-1M) to a $125 pair with teflon and some other features. the system consisted of a Hafler amplifier, a decent but not SOTA CD player, and a pair of panel speakers with a powered woofer. the speaker cables were OFC cut from a spool and terminated in-house with spades. i heard increased clarity and definition with the pricier cables, and so did everyone else in the room. while it was not night and day,
the degree of improvement impressed me enough that i bought a couple of pairs. if you can find a similar pair of cables costing around the same amount-
$250 or less a pair, that can and will settle a lot of arguments, and they will probably come with some very high-quality plugs on the ends (to make a secure connction.
beyond that you need very good equipment before getting significant additional benefits. of course this is just one example of getting started with something better than the "included in the box" type of cables.

If you have a mega dollar system, by all means better cables can make a difference although I never heard a huge difference myself, there is a difference. That said,
butting the high dollar cable money into the equipment will get you a bigger bang for the buck.

Putting a system together that sounds good takes time and effort in your price range. Any system done right will get good sound. Your room also plays a part in it.

No hype, no sarcasm, just facts..

Cables more hype than value?
What are the opinions out there?
Tobb (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

That can be said about every purchase ... cars, clothes ... Value is different for everyone and up to an individual consumer.

Why is it that when someone can't hear, or dosen't want to hear, differences in cables, they always start talking about psychology?

Anyone need a quick cool million? Better hurry before some guru beats you to it. Btw, this is not the only million dollars on the table. Others have offered the same thing. The oracle at stereophile raised his hand, but quickly backed off. I guess he pondered the consequences of failure. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Pear ANJOU Speaker Cables – $7,250

Pear Cable Corporation’s ANJOU Speaker Cable, a 12 foot length of which retails for $7,250, reportedly “allow new levels of sonic accuracy to be explored.” Supposedly, this exploration is accomplished by “proprietary hybrid geometry,” “ultra low electrical reactance” and “fully annealed 99.999% pure oxygen free Copper.”


In response to a glowing review by Dave Clark, editor of Positive Feedback, in which he refers to the cables as “very danceable”, the James Randi Educational Foundation offered a million-dollar prize to anyone who can prove beyond the shadow of doubt that these expensive speaker cables actually perform better (to the human ear, mind you) than Monster Cable’s $80 HDMI cables. While the prize is available to anyone who can prove the superiority of the ANJOU cables, the JREF unabashedly directs this challenge at Mr. Clark himself. In fact, the JREF apparently has MANY SUCH UNCLAIMED prizes for audiophiles who can PROVE that certain exotic piece of audio equipment are actually as exceptional as they claim.

“very danceable” hahahahhahahahhah REALLY!!!
Just the facts! Use them as you will. :)

Cheers

Amazing just how short it takes to go into the weeds. And flounder there. Hopefully, this thread will have a short life.

Personally, I've found that there is a difference but the differences pale in comparison to the price the higher up you go.

Tobb, have your tried different cables? If not, go to http://www.thecableco.com/ and try their 30 day trial program. All you'll be out is shipping costs and 5% of the cable price-you can decide for yourself.

All the best,
Nonoise

The more resolving the equipment the more of the nuances between cable you can hear. I have heard and do believe they make a difference. For good or for bad. All the hoopla of manufacutre toting "you will hear the inner soul of your music" and "soundstages will unfold before you're very eyes" and such is just hyperbole. The reality it's more akin to nuance differences unless there is a serious mismatch issue going on with your system - IMHO of course. Either your base equipment has what your seeking it or it doesnt, no amount of cable tweaks will make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Ultimately the $'s one spends has diminishing returns, so in the end the worth you put on cables is up to you.

Everything in audio is more hype than value, including cables.

If that doesn't answer your question Tobb, Schipo will be along shortly to give you the straight scoop ;)

Rok2id,

I think I struck a nerve with my psychology reference. Every time someone mentions the word cable, you start posting like someone who escaped from a mental institution. It can be painful to watch. I don't mean to pry, but I think its time you considered getting some professional help. Really, its for your own good. As a friend I would strongly urge you to take Nonoise's advice and give the Cable Company a call. Its the best institution for someone like you. If you're patient, honest with yourself, and make a commitment to work through this ordeal, I believe they can restore your sanity and get your cable house in order. At this point, you have nothing to loose.

They do sound different - period. More money spent does not always equat to improved sound. One just has to listen to several/many and pic what they like the best. This is very personal and subjective.

I have learned that spending more money won't nesseccarily get you better sound in your system and to your ears.

For me simple, well constructed solid core copper cables sound best. No special pureness or anything. Just plain old Teflon coated, solid core copper in various gauges all bundled into a very thick and stiff cable.

To my ears and likes, they sound better then all high dollar silver cables I have tried. Again...for me. Another may need to spend big money for those pure silver cables as they sound best to them. It's all good and listen on!

Zd542,
I think you have me confused with someone else as pertains to wire. On this thread, I am just a messenger. All I posted, about cable, was from people a lot more knowledgeable than me. I just delivered the message. I didn't drink the Wire kool-aid, so I am not involved. Just trying to be helpful. HOWEVER, when some one says a cable is 'danceable', I have to speak. After all I am only human. There is only so much a human can take.
I am not a player is the wire debate. Blue Jeans is all need.

Cheers

This debate is hilarous! I have been in this bussiness for 25 years! even the wife of 2 years who knows nothing of cables watched a test to educate her with quality cables versus .50 i/c 1.00 afoot speaker cable and taking all the price points up from there to $24,000.00 8ft speaker cables and $16,000.00 I/C 1-meter, needless to say she learned alot,she is a beginner at that!outcome,a good brand of cables are the most important part of a system bar none!,,such as TaraLabs,purist audio,nordost,lessloss,kimber cables,k.s.elations,transparent cables,It really depends on your tast!,for instance, A person may like a ferrari and another a laborginni, they both are good,but one performs to what the buyer is looking for!

Rok2id, I agree with Zd542 here, you come off sounding like you have an ax to grind. Maybe you should go back on your meds, or at least stay away from Audiogon threads if they agitate you that much.

I was reading an article yesterday about Rafael Nadal's new $690,000 watch, and at no point did I find myself running around screaming that his watch was no different than my $69 Timex. That is how rational people behave. They allow others the freedom to choose items that do not interest them.

Seriously dude, chillax, before you pop a blood vessel and have a stroke.

If you have a mega dollar system, by all means better cables can make a difference although I never heard a huge difference myself, there is a difference. That said,
butting the high dollar cable money into the equipment will get you a bigger bang for the buck.

Putting a system together that sounds good takes time and effort in your price range. Any system done right will get good sound. Your room also plays a part in it.

No hype, no sarcasm, just facts..

My intent was not to stir up shite.
I honestly can't hear a difference between Mega cable and a good old generic.
Where I did see a difference was between balanced and RCA

Jmcgrogan2:
I am flabbergasted!!! Did you read the two post I submitted? Both were copies of info I got online. Are you saying the authors of the info were nuts also? I thought my comments were inline with all the other posters. Chayro was critical, and he was given the benefit of the doubt. People even 'explained' that he using sarcasm. I had no idea I was making a spectacle of my self. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll try to be more of a team player in the future.

Cheers

check out an the experiences of a former cable skeptic in pinkfish audio forum
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum

"Just killed my hifi with a cable change ...."

from a personal perspective, as I moved up the hardware $$ ladder from $2K, to $8K, and now to $35K, I experienced the cables upgrade (~ 10 to 15% of budget) that followed suit with not-subtle similar favourable results in audio improvement and satisfaction.

02-17-13: Rok2id
Did you read the two post I submitted?

Yes, I did, and quite frankly, they wreak of bitterness and jealousy.

If you are content with your $69 Timex, relax and enjoy life. Don't fret and blow up when others say their Tag Heuer's and Rolex's are better. You will never convince them otherwise, and your efforts only make you seem bitter and resentful at how they spend their money.

Just pop a cold one and chillax.

French_fries

What u heard may and may not count unless this was all done using blind test method..knowing which cable I which just doesn't cut it...so what was it sighted or blind...

Jmcgrogan2
thinking of me I feel very touched indeed ..not as touched in the head as you.But touched indeed.

Well, I tried to be nice. My posts 'wreak' of facts! Listen, this is not about money. I can assure you I can afford anything I have ever seen on this site. I don't care how other people spend THEIR money. This is about Physics, science and human physiology. This is about common sense. This is about people spreading nonsense and trying to pass it off as truth.
I am always amazed how, when someone criticizes anything on this site, the assumption is, jealousy or envy. I envy no one. What a petty mind people like you have.
Most of the time I try to be provacative just to simulate discussion. Maybe you can talk for hours about the merits of the Thunderbolt Cyclone mark 6 speaker cable and the Black Widow Banshee mark 4 power cord. My eyes just glaze over. Post after post of sheer nonsense. Posted by people with absolutely no knowledge of electronics or sound wave theory, or Stereo equipment. Just 'audiophiles', As if they are a different species. Possessing SUPER SENSES. Let's not even mention music.
Now, you could say, so what? What business is it of mine. I would reply, it's just the way HUMANS are made. To resist and expose ignorance and cheaters. To respond in the face of balant untruths. It's as simple as that.
BTW, no one is required to read my posts.

It's interesting that no one responded to the points made in my posts. They just attacked me. I guess you own a few 'danceable' cables also. :)

Cheers

02-17-13: Rok2id
BTW, no one is required to read my posts.

Well said!! There, you see, if you read through enough of your rants and diatribes, you can find something of value.

Whenever I get the urge to spend component-level money on cables, I go out and buy an actual component.

02-17-13: Tobb
I honestly can't hear a difference between Mega cable and a good old generic.

The reason for that is NOT necessarily that your system (or your ears) are lacking in (musical) resolution. Quoting from myself in this thread:

The degree to which cables will make a difference depends not only on the intrinsic characteristics and quality of the cable, and on the quality and musical resolution of the system, but perhaps just as significantly or even more so on interactions between the technical characteristics of the cable and those of what it is connecting. Impedances, for instance, among many other dependencies that could be cited which have no direct relation to the sonic quality of the system.

See my post dated 12-15-12 HERE for a summary of many of those interactions and dependencies. That post also describes a couple of examples of how a given cable can sometimes even have exactly opposite sonic effects depending on what it is connecting.

It should therefore be kept in mind that the ability of a system to resolve musical detail, and its ability to resolve differences between cables, are two different things. And sometimes there may even be an inverse relationship between the two.

Finally, it should be kept in mind that the sonic effects of line-level analog interconnects and speaker cables will be proportional to their length. A reduction in length will bring the performance of those cables closer to neutrality (i.e., closer to having no sonic effects), everything else being equal. That is not necessarily the case, though, with digital cables, phono cables, and power cords, due to the complexity and/or unpredictability of the interactions that are involved.

Regards,
-- Al

Thanks Al, for, as usual, calming things down with some facts and common sense.

Tobb, I meant no disrespect with my first response. It just seemed improbable to me that this subject could be brought up again; not much new that can be said about it. If you can't hear the difference (for whatever reason) in your current system, consider yourself fortunate and buy some new music instead. Regards.

I stand to be corrected!
We did a test this weekend with an 800.00 pair of interconnects that a contact loaned us and a 60.00 pair.
I can hear the difference but it was not in favor of the 800.00 pair.

I'm glad to be an unofficial member of Rok2id's posse. He often makes
more sense from a larger picture of audio and the search for symmetry with
the human psyche. Plus, he exhibits a sense of humor often missing here.
People can be deadly serious about audio from a myopic view and lash at
others who care about components, cash or listening differently.

Cables are an essential part of a system. The quality is so good these days you can get to a higher level without them. I will give you 2 examples. In 2004 I did blind tests for clients. I had a cd player of 2000 euro with a powercable od 2600 euro. And a cd player of 5000 euro with our most sols powercable of 100 euro. All people choose for the cd player and powercable of 2600 euro. They all were very surprised. Last week I received the latest Purist Audio LE powercable. I have the best articulation I ever had. Of all the cd's I played hundreds of times I easily can hear all the endings of words during singing. Even with poweramps which were 2 times more expensive I did not have this level in articulation. Cables can ad new qualities in your system what equipment cannot do.

35 fish on this 'fishing expedition'.. Good haul.
A stupid cable question is always good for a few dozen bites..
At least one other person saw it for what it is though.
One out of 36 is not bad.

Mt10425:
Thanks for your words of support. You just doubled the size of the 'posse'. High Noon comes to mind.

Cheers

Rok2id, it's only a matter of time before you'll have to refuse membership
applications to this 'exclusive' posse because of excessive numbers and
management of 'fringe' members. ;)

Not at all...

Happy Listening!

From my personal experience cables do make a difference. But no where as close to a difference that the room treatments did. I had the Nordost Flat lines and then compared them with Nordost Blue Heavens and Signal Silvers. Currently have the Signals and am happy with them.

Rok2id probably belongs to avsforum, where they believe that ALL speakers, sources, cables and amplifiers sound the same - provided they are "level" matched. For me, it is just like saying all the cars like Doge Neon, Honda Fit, Acura TL, MBZ S500, Lamborghini Avantador and Buggati Veyron drive the same - provided they have the same horsepower...what the!!

the question posed is a variant of "are cables over priced" ?

this subject has been discussed before. the answer is still the same.

its a matter of economics. the value in use = the value in exchange. this means that a cable will sell for a price that the market will bear.

since the market for expensive cables is small, the demand is probably inelastic.

whether expectation, opinion or advertising creates demand is irrelevant. the issue is, does expensive cable sell in sufficient quantities to render viable, business that sell expensive cable?

I wonder who's more fortunate, those whose hearing is so compromised that differences between cables can't be discerned or those like myself who have spent not a small amount of money on cables and experience huge sonic benifits. Can't we just all get along?

I still see FOUR (4) lights!!

Cheers

Rok2id.

That was an awesome post. The episode you reference was one of my most favorite of that entire series.

research it people and watch the episode. It is probably out on youtube. It is a million times better then going through another cable value debate.

Rok2id..what does your system consist of..?..

Rok2id,

This is the first chance I had to read through all of this since my last post. It looks like I may have offended you. If I did, I'm really, really sorry. In some of the other threads, we've commented back and forth in good humour. I didn't think for a second you would take my last post seriously. To be honest, I don't share your views on cables, but who cares. I do, however, think your comments are honest and thats all anyone can ask. Also, some of your comments on other topics like music and recordings are some of the best I've ever read on this web site. So, once again, if I offended you in any way, I'm sorry.

Zd542:

No apology is required or expected. I love a good spirited discussion. I was not offended in any way. And all of my comments, at least the not so nice ones, were directed at Jmcgrogan2. But I am not mad at him either. I just like the give and take.
Wire? Lets just agree to disagree. I don't want to lose a good music member over this silly wire stuff. Thanks for the post. BTW, I think you and I are the ONLY people on this site to have actually apologized for things said in the heat of battle.

Cheers

Thank you for the kind words concerning music. I know at least three guys who would beg to disagree with that.:)

Cheers