Thiel Owners

Arniespin...

The reason I went for the BAT over a more powerful Rogue model was twofold; 1.) One just wasn’t available at the time and 2.) I like swapping out stuff as quickly as possible and getting a decent enough trade-in toward the BAT expedited that. Easy peasey. 

The biggest difference is the Goertz speaker cables. Slapping them in over the Transparent resulted in the 3.6’s being more defined in the bass. It’s kind of funny how much I carp about bass reproduction, or how we carp about it concerning loudspeakers in general. While I’m not a “bass” guy - I like “bright” - Thiel and Maggies get it so right that many other brands pale in comparison. Maggies lack it far more than Thiel, but both, to my ears, just sound natural. The ported Totem Hawks I had were truly good speakers but the bass was far more colored, kind of emphasized, whereas any Thiel I’ve owned just sounds right. 

We all have to employ a certain degree of “forgive and live” with anything we buy. Listening space, aesthetics, significant others, 
finances, etc. I will say that Thiel is about 10% forgive and live whereas any other component I’ve had is around 50%. Thiels stick, amps and stuff have come and gone. 

In spite of my appreciation for BAT, I still believe that Pass Labs is one of, if not the best matches for Thiel. I just received my Reno Hifi 2018 calendar which also included a new Pass Brochure and I’m so...grrrr.  We’re I a wealthier man...

But another point is that used Pass, like Thiel, represent true audiophile bargains for folks like me-self. I keep looking...

 Nah...my 3.6’s go 10hz lower and cost less than half.  I’m sitting tight...for now.  

I’m freaking 60, very soon to turn 61, and since becoming a member on this lunatic site around 4 years ago I’ve burned through quite a few dollars on everything in the most futile of pursuits - perfection.  

Obviously my chronological advance has not yet graced me with wisdom. I doubt it ever will, perhaps when I cease advancing I may find it. 

Anyway - as close to a reasonable facsimile of perfection as one may get in this hobby is Thiel. 
Speakers HAVE to cost more than these to be better - and from my limited “high end” auditions over the last few years the only other manufacturer that comes even close is Magnepan.  I’m a fan of both.  I simply can’t find sonic or financial reasons sufficient to consider blowing a few thousand bucks on other brands that might do one or even a couple of things “better”,  especially when none in my $$ wheelhouse do everything as well as Thiel does. 

IMHO Pass Labs  and Thiel represent amazing sonics. I’m still trying to get my 3.6’s to shine as my 3.5’s did.  I don’t think I’ll be getting there soon.  I may be selling my 3.6’s to find another pair of 3.5’s.  Something about those suckers that connects with me where the 3.6’s do not. 

To each his own. 

As long as it’s Thiel!

dhoff01...

Ya' know,  describing the difference between the 3.5 and 3.6 models is something that I thought would be less than it really is,  but the fact of the matter is that these are VERY different speakers.  And far more different than moving "up" as I did from 2.0,  2.2,  and 2.3 to the 3.5's.  In those earlier examples the differences merely improved on everything that endeared Thiel to me from the get-go,  accuracy,  colorlessness,  and most specifically,  bass reproduction that felt like,  sounded like bass without exaggeration.  

I keep saying that I'm not a "bass" fiend,  finding most speakers reproduction of it artificial and cartoonish - for lack of a better term.  I'm also a pretty big fan of Magnepan,  so my ears do favor midrange and highs to begin with.


I used a Pass Labs X150.5/BAT tubed pre setup for  my 3.5's,  and I am currently - no pun intended - using a BAT integrated.  Either setup provided 150 watts into 8 ohms,  300 into 4 ohm loads which either Thiel is rated.  To my ears the 3.6's just don't pressurize the room the way the 3.5's did.  I'm also finding that the highs on the 3.6's seem diminished - odd considering that some people describe Thiels as "too bright."


I think that the 3.6's do require a more significant amount of power to truly shine.  At levels louder than I normally listen at they do begin to strut their proverbial stuff.  But,  alas,  my listening evil is very conservative and I believe the 3.5's just presented everything better at lower volumes than the 3.6's are wont to - again,  my humble opinion.


Thiel improves ANY setup one may have.  I've tossed a bevy of amps at them,  Pass Labs,  Threshold,  Primare,  Audio Research,  Conrad Johnson,  McIntosh...this site has drained my bank account a few times in the last 4 years.


I just put my 3.6's up for sale here on the site.  Right now I'm downsizing,  returning to tubes, looking at more efficient Thiels - if that's possible.

prof...

I believe that I was running my first pair of 3.5's with a Cayin integrated that put out somewhere around 30 watts in triode believe it or not.  As you've found yourself,  running a little hotter volume wise really lets this brand sing but,  and a big but,  I tend to listen at levels that most people would describe as "low",  even though I turn it up until it sounds "right."

Slipping in a pair of Goertz alpha core veracity cables did manage to effect a somewhat better definition at my level,  but to my ears the 3.6's just aren't providing something that the 3.5's did,  and that appears to be a lessening of the highs?  Just my ears saying that - if ears could talk.

Since I sold off my second Pass Labs X150.5 it might be unfair to compare the two  in hindsight,  especially since I found Pass/Thiel to be the best setup I've had.  (I should hasten to add that I've three pairs of 3.5's...)  The Pass was mated to a BAT VK3i preamp which was also excellent,  but I do think that Pass mates equally well,  if not better,  with an Audio Research pre.  

But then again,  I've decided that separates drove me to distraction,  that I was more concerned with the equipment than I was with the music.  The BAT integrated I now own,  a VK300xse,  has more than enough juice I need for these and any other speakers I may wind up getting - hopefully yet another pair of Thiel.

arvincastro...

I am also a BIG fan of the 3.5's.

As to your comments regarding how these speakers reveal flaws up and down the chain,  particularly with digital formats,  I can only state that the existing issue is not the speakers.

So far as tossing "vintage" separates at them to improve everything,  I have had a Threshold 400A amp mated to a BAT tubed preamp and the results were very good.  (I've tossed a pretty good amount of stuff at my Thiels,  in fact.)  My favorites?  For amplification,  hands down Pass Labs.  (X150.5 model) For pre-amps?  I really believe that Audio Research and Thiel are great matches.  I like having tubes in my preamps for Thiel.  ARC just has this "punchiness" that I like.  LS3 and LS3b (tubed) models can be found on here at VERY fair prices.  And they can still be repaired if an issue ever arises.

I actually sold my Threshold fairly cheap because the meter lights weren't working - or so I thought.  Turns out I wasn't throwing enough power to the speakers.  (3.5's)  As unsound,  another member here and a wealth of things regarding Thiel overall related once,  the 3.5's are one of the easiest models to drive.  For the record,  I always left the bass equalizer in operation.  A few members have offered that they sound better without it,  but I disagree.  The speakers were designed to have it in use,  so who am I to argue with Jim Thiel's design?

Pass Labs,  even pre-owned,  can be expensive.  I've had two X150.5 amps,  paying a little more the second time around than the first,  approximately $2500.  A bargain,  given how well Pass mates with Thiel.  It just DOES for me.  I have since moved back to a BAT integrated with identical power ratings to the Pass Labs,  and it's working out fine.  Pass Labs integrated are difficult to find on the pre-owned market.  The INT150 has been discontinued but appears once in a while on the Renohifi site - a retailer I can highly recommend.  Mark is a gent and a good businessman.

I am currently selling my 3.6's because I miss the 3.5's so much.  I am hoping to find a local pair of 3.5,  or perhaps even a pair Maggie 1.7's.  I have a soft spot in my heart/head for both these brands and what they do so damn well.  

I forget to whom I offered the guts of the last pair of 3.5's I purchased here.  The cabinets were pretty rough and both midranges were inoperable,  so I gutted them and keep the raw drivers,  crossovers,  bass eq,  and grill hardware.  The midranges LOOK fine,  but they're dead - still repairable at around $300 apiece.  The woofers and tweeters are in fine condition, 100% operational.  Sequential serial numbers were on the cabinets as well.

Anyone willing to pick them up is welcome to them free of charge.

arvincastro,

I was a child of the 60's and grew up in the heyday of the "receiver wars" - Pioneer,  Kenwood, Sansui,  Marantz to name perhaps the most popular brands.  Prior to becoming able to afford any one of those my family's "stereo" was a Magnavox console driven by tubes,  LP only - no radio,  no nothing.

I still own a Pioneer SX1050 as well as a Marantz 2252B receiver,  both of which are currently being employed and enjoyed as my girlfriend's sources of music in her house.  In her living room the Pioneer is mated to a fairly cosmetically compromised pair of Meadowlark Kestrels,  a manufacturer that shared an appreciation for coherent sound like Jim Thiel.  The setup still surprises me as to how damn good it sounds.  Those old receivers still rock.

I do believe that I stumbled upon this site looking for another piece of "vintage" equipment.  It's going on five years membership here now,  and I think at the time I had a Cayin integrated amp rated at around 30 watts or so per channel,  with a pair of Klipsch CF-3 loudspeakers that I purchased just around the corner from my new house.  (circa 1994)  Since discovering Audiogon it's been all downhill...

I'm joking of course.

I began with CS2.2,  then CS2.3,  until my first pair of CS3.5 about....4 years ago,  methinks.  I drove to Massachusetts to pick them up.  While I liked both of the earlier models,  it was the CS3.5 which really upgraded my system.  There have been only two manufacturers that have made me stop in my tracks walking back to my seat while starting the music,  one is,  obviously,  Thiel,  the other Magnepan.  What these brands do so damn well for me negates any "shortcomings" of either - they reproduce music,  not sound.  IMHO.

Anyway...that's when I began buying stuff here.  I was curious.  You know the drill.

So...in order of preference with Thiel...

Amplification:
First Watt M2 - low powered solid state that got me addicted to Pass Labs.  Bought it,  within a month traded it back for the Pass Labs X150.5 amp.

Pass Labs X150.5 - 150 watts into 8 ohms,  300 watts into 4 ohms,  plenty enough for my CS3.5's.  Incredible improvement to my system.  Colorless amp,  colorless speakers.  Truly the best match so far.

Primare A34.2 integrated - class D,  150 watts into 8 ohms,  "almost 300" into 4 ohms.  (Actual quote from Primare when I inquired.)  Don't let anyone tell you that class D amps aren't suited for Thiel - they ARE.  The reason I traded that off was because I could not employ the CS3.5 bass equalizer without...I forget.  It was a pain in the ass.  I had separates before where gettin git in there was easier.

Conrad Johnson MF2200,  2100 - very punchy and low-mid emphasized.  CJ seemed to hold something back through the Thiels.  Can be had pretty cheaply here from time to time.  Mated with two different ARC preamps and still...

McIntosh 6700 Receiver - 200 watts per channel,  and $6700 ill-spent. Like so many of us McIntosh continued to have a hold on my imagination over the years.  Didn't have it long.

McIntosh MC275 Mark VI amplifier - loved it,  but when a tube blew within a week I contacted McIntosh directly and related the problem to some "customer service" person who simply made me aware of the fact that didn't manufacture the tubes.  I responded, "well they have the word McIntosh screened onto them, so..."   Thanks to Dave Wasserman at Stereo Exchange in NYC for stepping into assist me - but I was done.  With McIntosh forever.  Feh!


As far as you're concerned I would suggest staying away from the "vintage" gear out there with the only exception being Threshold.  As I related in my earlier post,  I thought my Threshold's power meters were malfunctioning,  but when the gent whom I sold it to told me they were working fine I realized I just wasn't pushing it for them to register.  Somewhere amidst all of this swapping in and out I had an Adcom and it pulsed my speakers on startup.  Whoosh!  Away it went.

Regarding preamps,  I truly lean toward Audio Research in that regard.  To my ears they provided punch to the various amps I was using.  (And there are  more....)  I also enjoyed a passive preamp for a while - I forget the brand - and with the Pass and the passive pre the Thiels were remarkably brilliant,  if not as "forward" sounding as before.  

Oh yes,  with all due haste I do have to mention that when I had separates I changed all my cabling over to Transparent.  I had something of a mish-mosh of cabling prior,  but after reading what jafant espouses here regarding cables I thought,  "Why the hell not?  Everything else I've learned from this forum has had value to one extent or another..."  I also think Goertz cables work very well with Thiel.

This IS a great forum.  Folks here have truly helped me out in many,  many,  ways.  unsound, mapman,  jafant - to name a few - have all assisted me in bettering my stuff.  I appreciate it.

Happy new year Thiel lovers!

I’ve had a Rogue Cronus Magnum and it’s an incredible value - especially for tube gear.  I forget why I sold it off...

Probably because I’m on this site too much!

Arvin...
I have owned three ARC preamps - LS2, LS2B, and an LS 3 - each attained at prices that were extremely reasonable.  (The LS2B being the only tubed version.)

At such prices they represent truly remarkable values given the build quality, performance, and sonics. Though I never experienced any issues with any one of them, the fact that most can still be serviced by ARC is quite comforting.  

One thing that needs to be said about moving up the Thiel food chain that perhaps isn’t obvious to people, including myself;  as you pass the 3.5 model things change remarkably.  The 3.6 ISN’T the 3.5 on steroids. It’s a very different speaker with very different characteristics, typically Thiel in the respects to clarity, soundstage, etc.,  but way more emphasized in the midrange with perhaps a softening of the highs.  IMHO. My personal experience with this genesis has me missing the 3.5’s sonics - then again I’ve owned three pairs of them. Methinks the 3.6 model require lots of current/power to show their best while the 3.5 model requires less. 

I’m an “audiot”, new word!  With rare exception most of my gear has been purchased used, right here on Audiogon. Now a five year member, my chain of sales/purchases runs 9 pages long.  I’ve had more stuff in this time than I had during the previous four decades - and all because I found Thiel. 

True.  I’ve never before experienced a speaker that does everything so damn well.  My b&m shop had me listening to some Wilson model not too long ago and while I liked them, $16k was so far removed from my sensibilities that I wouldn’t even if I could. And they still weren’t Thiel to boot. 

You’ll be quite happy with the ARC LS7 if my experience can mirror your’s. The ONLY reason why I sold/purchased etc was to gain a remote control to remove getting up and walking the 12 feet to change the volume.  I’ve since deconstructed my separates setup with a BAT integrated. I grew weary of all the wires and whatnot.  Were I to return to separates again ARC amps/preamps would be at the top of my list. 

Hmmm...come to think of it I’ve never had an ARC power amp.  Off to the listings!

In my limited experience with repairing Thiel 3.5 midranges a couple of years back the performance of Thiel in general warrants what is truly an “investment” as opposed to a mere “repair”.  Even with the $600 + dollars invested into a pair of speakers that cost me approximately the same,  (methinks) where could one spend $1200 on a pair of new speakers and get the performance/Sonics of Thiel?

We all know the answer to that question. 

I just sold off my pair of 3.6 to a fellow member who drove 250 miles to pick them up - amazing how Thiel fans are willing to spend the time and effort to get ‘em, ain’t it?  I drove an equivalent distance to pick up my first pair of 3.5’s. 

By my A’gon membership count I’ve had 5 amp and preamp combos since joining the site, and that doesn’t account for purchases off the site.  I think it makes 9 or 10 total.  Could be more. 

I’ve had three - count ‘em three - pairs of CS 3.5’s, one pair of CS 3.6’s, and I forget my first three pairs of pre 3.5 Thiels. I am truly an audiot. 

I still have the guts of my last pair of 3.5’s,  drivers, crossovers, nameplates, which I offered to someone here free if they can be picked up, but I forget to whom I made that offer.  Consecutive serial numbers, but the midranges on either do not work.  Hello Rob Gullom?   VERY much worth having them repaired.  

As I’ve said before, one does not simply purchase Thiel, one invests in Thiel.  Discovering Thiel on the used market has allowed me to experience what high fidelity is all about at a fraction of the original cost. 

This is easily one of the best,  most informative and civil forums I've had the pleasure to come across on this site since joining,  oh,  about five years ago.  There had been a rather lengthy stray from the "hi-fi" scene in my life,  perhaps a 25 year long span,  during which I listened - and rarely - through a series of vintage receivers from the 1970's; those Pioneer,  Sansui,  Marantz receivers still have a hold on me to this day.

I believe I stumbled upon this site whilst actually looking for yet another relic from my mis-spent youth,  in the process becoming beguiled by a tube amplifier someone had put up for sale.  It's been all downhill since...

In a good way,  if that's possible.

As I've said before,  I don't know a mosfet from a  misfit,  but I know what I like.  I may not be able to contribute anything substantive to the current and quite technological discussion currently being followed,  but I read,  as I have read in the past,  with a keen interest in learning what it is about Thiel that captured me in the first place.

A few years back with my first pair of Thiel 3.5's I opted,  as a result of  one of the midranges going in and out,  to remove it to see what was causing it.  In the process I slipped with the screwdriver and poked a small,  but worrisome hole in the midrange's surround - not the driver itself.  It was through this forum that I discovered Rob Gullom was still repairing drivers for the model,  and so sent the pair off for repair.  I gifted that pair to my nephew.

So much of our possessions are disposable.  So much of what we purchase IS disposable,  designed for the short term with nary a forethought as to how much we consume and ultimately discard.  The purchase of Thiel legacy models is an investment,  not merely a purchase in and of itself.  Fixing/repairing any model is indeed an investment,  not a patch.

There have been too many times here,  in too short a span of time,  that I've said "I'm done" upon finding a great system recently.  (As if it's possible to reach that point.)  I ain't done,  and I never will be.  Forums like this,  with contributors who don't get snarky or preachy,  are the reason why I keep reading,  keep trading,  keep interested.  Thiel is special stuff,  and the community of fellow fans continues to be a learning experience for me.

Frankly, I’ve thrown a lot of different amp/preamp combinations at my Thiels over the past few years, none of which sounded bad through them. Class d amps mated as well as class a/b amps managed;  every combo offered something different but to say I could tell class d from a/b would be something of a stretch.  

Through it all I always had a tubed preamp, just a holdover thing and my fondness for tubes in general. 
While I’m again currently pondering a return to separates, my integrated hasn’t had me missing anything I could readily detect. The BAT is pretty sweet. 

Frankly, I’ve thrown a lot of different amp/preamp combinations at my Thiels over the past few years, none of which sounded bad through them. Class d amps mated as well as class a/b amps managed;  every combo offered something different but to say I could tell class d from a/b would be something of a stretch.  

Through it all I always had a tubed preamp, just a holdover thing and my fondness for tubes in general. 
While I’m again currently pondering a return to separates, my integrated hasn’t had me missing anything I could readily detect. The BAT is pretty sweet. 

I sent Rob @ Thiel a very brief email congratulating him on continuing with the excellent service that he has already demonstrated over the years.  Though my email did not warrant a reply,  Rob did - and quickly.  And I'm not even a customer at this point.

I'm scouring the ads now to "invest" in yet another pair of Thiel.  I j just can't NOT support this guy!

You bet your ass a souped up version of the 3.5’s would have an audience!

With regards to the EQ,  I always had it engaged, when it wasn’t the sound was less...something.  To my humble ears the 3.5’s also have a more distinct mid and high impression.  I also figure that Jim Thiel’s reason for it was worth adhering to since I know NOTHING about designing/engineering a loudspeaker.

I had a very hard time of it warming up to my 3.6’s unless I really threw some juice at them, and even my 20/20 hindsight favored the 3.5’s.  

I emailed Rob the other day inquiring as to whether he might have discovered some 3.5 cabinets lying about but, alas, he didn’t.  I still have a complete set of guts from a pair and was thinking re-investing in them.  Yes, I am looking for another pair. Them midranges is the weak spot buying used, and many of the pairs on eBay are in pretty poor condition if you look closely. 

I’m currently enjoying a new pair of Maggie 1.7i’s that are staring back at me, almost aware of the fact that they’re perhaps temporary.  One thing that they do share with my appreciation for 3.5 is this great snappiness in the highs.  I’m listening to a bunch of Bill Frisell stuff right now and what I recall from my 3.5’s is this excellent articulation.  Hell, even Jim Thiel admired what planars can do.  

I just missed a Pass Labs INT 150 the other day. Couldn’t have been available for more than a day. They sell fast off the Reno site.  

Grrrrrr....

Hmmm...a pair of CS 7 available locally for $3k?  Cabinets appear fair...

I’m also looking at a Modwright KWI200 integrated which would give me an additional 100 watts @ 4 ohms.  

Damn you, Audiogon!

thieliste...

While I cannot offer an opinion on a MODWRIGHT KWI-200 SE with Thiel, I can offer one on the Modwright KWI-200 non-SE which I purchased used here from a fellow member a couple of months ago. 200 watts @ 8ohms, 400 watts @ 4ohms.  100% solid state BUT, it does have a home theatre by-pass which would permit employing a tube preamp if you so desire.  

Fortunately for me the unit arrived in pristine condition - indiscernible from new. Mine came with a very flimsy factory plastic remote, but after researching a little further I discovered that the factory still offers a rather hefty metal remote as a $200 option.  I called them directly and purchased it immediately. It worked flawlessly right out of the box.  

During this his call I inquired about using the home theatre bypass to employ a tube preamp and within a minute or so Dan Wright was speaking with me.  Impressed?  Hell yes - and I related that I had purchased the unit used.  It didn't matter.  Mr. Wright treated me with the utmost courtesy, as though I was a lifelong customer.  

As as this is the first all solid state system I've had in quite a while my initial impressions find it a tad more forward than any hybrid setup I've used - various solid state amps with tube preamps.  

Sonically speaking I have to say it strikes me as being rather similar to a Pass X150.5 in terms of delivering accurate, uncolored, "musicality" - terms I've used to describe my impressions of Thiel as well.  The nod would have to go to the Pass for perhaps being "too" clean - if THAT'S possible.  The Modwright strikes me as being a touch less aggressive in the treble, but this is a hindsight opinion culled from memory,  not a direct a/b comparison.  

Given the the reviews I researched before purchasing the Modwright and my post-purchase experience speaking with the brand owner, I have to relate that the model you're considering is most definitely a worthy contender.  Also, it is considerably larger than it appears in the web photos - my virtual systems page shows it.  It's about the same size as a Pass X150.5,  but it weighs a little less. Power-wise it offers 50 more watts at 8ohms and 100 more watts at 4ohms than my Pass did which, methinks, is both ample enough to power the legendarily "power hungry" Thiels, if not more than sufficient.  

I hasten to add that what I look for, seek in my amplifier choices is resolution at moderate listening levels.  In my humble experiences since joining this site the Pass and the Modwright deliver this exceedingly well - especially with speakers like Thiel that impressed me from the get-go with the exact same qualities. 

jafant...

They musta been sold. Just checked.  I still have all the guts from that last pair - drivers, crossovers, bass eq.  The mids are shot and will require fix.  Hmmmm

Yes, it was I who preferred the 3.5 over the 3.6 for a number of quite personal reasons. (Ain’t they all?)

Like most folks would logically assume, moving up the Thiel line means mo’ better everything, correct?
While there was absolutely nothing to fault the 3.6’s for, the sonic difference between the two was, to my ears, REMARKABLY different.  Only when I played my music at higher volume than I normally do did the 3.6 strut it’s “Thieliness”. 

And many of us here know already how much I love the Thiel sonics.  Too bright?  My butt!

While I am not qualified to offer an opinion based on the technical specifications differentiating the two, my humble ears preferred the 3.5’s - everything was just THERE immediately at modest level, while the 3.6 only started to shine at a higher listening level. 

Which is no knock on the sonics of the 3.6.  I got mine for $1600 shipped from Chicago - which is a truly “stupid” price to pay for speakers of Thiel quality.  

The duration and number of posts in this thread alone is pretty damn amazing.  It’s by far and away one the most civil and informational threads on the site. 

dancastagna...

Right now I’m selling off a pair of Vandy 3A Sigs that I picked up just a few months ago. You can’t go wrong with Vandersteen in general, in many ways they are THIS close to Thiels but...they just ain’t.  The bass reproduction strikes me as honest an unforgiving as Thiel, but methinks the Thiel bests Vandy in the mids and highs.  Perhaps by just a hair or two, but my humble, sixty-one year old ears love the articulate treble that Thiel does so damn well. 

I’m selling the Vandies because of reasons other and apart from my ridiculous audiot life; when I’m able to return Thiel will top my list -  hopefully 3.5’s because sizewise/roomwise/pricewise they simply kill.  I will BEGIN with Thiel and build around Thiel.  Hopefully with yet another Pass Labs amp...wotta match!

I’ve said before that buying used Thiel speakers is an investment, not just a purchase.  Now with Rob taking care of us zealots my sentiment rings even more true.  Thiel rules and Thiel LIVES!

thielrules...

I have to say that my lack of enthusiasm with the 3.6 was due more to my high level of anticipating a significant improvement over the 3.5’s sonics which were and remain impressive. I have to admit that I pretty much thought, “wow, a BIGGER version of my 3.5’s...”.  Purty dumb...

Unfortunately, it is near impossible for any one of us to live audition Thiel because...   I, for one, was willing to invest in the upgrade path without having a chance to hear them first because Thiel speakers are truly outstanding stuff.  And I started with 2.0. 

I don’t know when I’ll be getting back in the game but my wheelhouse will always include Thiel, Maggies, Vandies...

BASS EQ FOR CS3.5

dinopau - where do you live?

I have a functional bass equalizer along with a complete pair of innards - crossovers, woofers, tweeters and midranges.  

The mids do not work.  So far as I could tell it worked fine but the mids didn’t.  

I live in NY 11755.  Contact me.  

Dinopau...

Yes, as I stated it is working.  

No worries about the site rules, I’ll be glad to give it to you for nothing provided you simply pay shipping/insurance.   I’ll find a suitable box and protect it well enough. I’ve seen it listed on other sites for around $100-$150 so let’s insure it for that.  That’s all - shipping + insurance and it’s your’s for ZIP. Depending on where you live from 11755 I’d guesstimate somewhere around $50 for the whole enchilada.  Megillah. Thingamabob. 

Same goes for the drivers except I will NOT ship. Any Thielist within a reasonable distance of 11755 is welcome to them for ZIP. Nada. Zilch. Zero. The mids are not working but the tweeters and woofers worked fine.  The crossovers too.  Sequential serial numbers too.  

FREE. Good for backup just in case...

Cabling is the least “sexy” part of our systems and, only until quite recently, I never gave power cords, interconnects, and speaker cables a helluva lotta thought. When I more or less finished with assembling the various pieces of hardware I’ve owned the next step, logically, had to be cables.  After all, I had an amp, a preamp, a dac, a disc player, a turntable, a streamer/server. What else could I spend money on?

Up until this particular moment I had been satisfied with the stock cables and whatnot that came with most of the aforementioned stuff.  Plug it in, listen. Simple. I bought my speaker cables at Radio Shack or Best Buy or whatever.  

My first dive into  spending more money/improving “things” was with a power conditioner - a Furitech something or other.  Okay, good.  

Then I read something somewhere, maybe here, about power cords.  Hmmm.  Okay.  I’ll go there.  

Got all the cords for everything that didn’t have one built-in. Wow, the cords certainly LOOKED and felt far more substantial than the stock cords.  Good. 

Then I went to interconnects.  Again, the simple color coordinated ones from stock or aftermarket were simply no good anymore - my equipment deserved better.  So I got a whole buncha interconnects.  Again, good. 

Mind you, I’m a pretty cheap bastard when it comes to parting with my money on things that are pretty much completely out of sight 99% of the time, so I went with the “cheapseats” versions of the brands I had read about.  Synergistic Research, Furutech, Goertz, Anti-Cables, Cardas, and a few others I’ve forgotten.  

Did going from stock cords and interconnects and speaker wire from Radio Shack improve things?  Well, yes - but to what measurable degree is debatable.  Was it worth the expenditure?  Well, again yes. Compared to my amps and preamps the cost to explore the possibilities was negligible. When I noticed an improvement I upgraded within the particular brand, when I didn’t I purchased other brands.  S’periments!

When I couldn’t detect a difference or an improvement did I feel that I squandered my money?
Nah. People here with far more technical experience than I will ever have convinced me that being curious about improving things is worth the minor expenditures I’ve employed.  

The dialogues for/against more expensive cables/fuses etc will never be satisfied.  Can you taste the difference between an $8 bottle of wine and an $80?  The answer is, sometimes. If you can taste the difference is it just different, or is one better than the other?  

Why am I submitting this in this forum?  Because until I heard Thiel I was satisfied.  After/since my first pair of 2.3’s it’s all been...tremendously fun.  I bought my first pair of 3.5’s from a guy in Massachusetts for $800, driving 3 hours to meet him in a parking lot. 

$400 apiece for speakers that sounded THAT good?
How could I not?   Alluva sudden I became aware that making whatever improvements I could made sense. Thiels made me an audiot - and I don’t regret it. 

I hasten to add that while the addition of Tom’s technical insight to Thiel excellence is equally fascinating and utterly insightful, I am a total ignoramus in this regard. Is it reassuring or disappointing that mere “consumers” can “get it” just by hearing them for the first time?

Hmmm....

Perhaps a little off subject here but I just stumbled upon a “new” product from McIntosh, the MA252 Hybrid Integrated amplifier.  

While it has been stated here that some Mc amps limit current - a definite drawback to those of us who’ve owned or own Thiels - this new thing puts out 100 watts into 8 ohms and 160 into 4;  nothing is mentioned in the literature regarding their famous/infamous autoformers.  Admittedly the piece is super cool looking as well. I suspect some constraints on current delivery because every other amp I’ve owned pretty much doubled down into 4 ohm loads. 

I mention this first because while I love the look of McIntosh I am not necessarily a fan.  I found their customer service to be extremely lacking when I had a minor issue with an MC275 Mark VI amp, and I truly found the 6700 receiver to be a disappointment. That being said, this little beauty goes for $3500 full retail - a veritable bargain in terms of McIntosh given the power rating and features.  Sheesh. 

It IS purty. 

Anyone here with McIntosh/Thiel?

PS:  This is by far and away the best thread in the A’gon forums.  The recent addition of Tom has been amazing.  Carry on!

Tomthiel...

Compared to most folks I’d offer that my listening level is VERY conservative 99% of the time. When pressed on occasion to show off how good my Thiels were I could be convinced to crank up the juice but...then I’d immediately direct their attention to the sonics, not the volume. The very thing that got me hooked on Thiel at the get-go. 

I have a very bright living room.  Laminate floor with a small carpet, a ceiling that starts at 9 foot on the left, sloping up and to the right until it tops at 17 feet.  I sit around 10 feet from the speakers.  (Sat, to be more specific. My current situation forced to me sell off my stuff to meet medical obligations and associated misfortunes.). Temporary though this may be, my current setup is simply a Peachtree Audio Deepblue2 and an Oppo disc player.  

This is will shortly develop into an equally simple setup in the guise of a re-gifting from my girlfriend.  I had given her a Marantz 2252b receiver a few years ago along with a small pair of Usher S520 bookshelves which we utilized in her master bedroom. A true “high school” hifi setup indeed!

When I am able to begin the rebuild it’s going to start with Thiel.  I’ll be as patient as Jafant in finding a pair - and THAT’s patient if you’ve followed his search for amps to power his 2.4’s with.  Patient!

Wow. I’m so relieved to hear that things I don’t fully/technically understand I am able to HEAR. I fell in love with Thiel not because of what the specs are but the way these speakers SOUND. 

I almost feel proud. 

pwhinson...

I also did business with Mark at Reno on two X150.5 amps and to say that he runs a class operation is an understatement. 

At the time I had a pair of CS3.5’s. (the amps were purchased at different times)  Like the first time I heard my first Thiels (2.2) I barely returned to my listening position before I went “wow.”

From top to bottom that amp just clutched the music in a way no previous amp had managed to; although I forget which preamp I had at that time it was a tube preamp.  The 3.5’s had a new lease on life in so many ways. (yes, I employed the bass eq at all times)

i have not heard the X150.8 but I’m sure it’s a fine match.  

Enjoy!

jafant...

Yes, I had a BAT VK3i preamp with that Pass for a little while. (cheap seats model from BAT)

In retrospect I believe I preferred ARC by just a hair. Hard to remember exactly why but IMHO the Audio Research player somewhat “brighter” than the BAT - which I prefer overall. Thiels “ too bright ?”   My butt!

Kudos to both manufacturers however in that on the used market they get pretty stable price-wise.  I sold both my ARC and BAT preamps at or close to the price I paid for them.  (Excluding the cost of the tubes, obviously) Most of the other things I’ve sold here I took a 10-15% depreciation on. 

BAT & Pass Labs match very well. 

silvanick...

The HapZ1es is a truly excellent piece.  I got mine “used” from a fellow member here on the site for $1200 - which they currently fetch now.  VERY worth one’s while.  

What I enjoyed about it most was it’s simplicity.  I didn’t want a “computer” or a computer interface anywhere near my stereo.  I had a Bluesound Vault2 prior to that but had difficulty in getting it set up correctly so...off it went.  The ease of loading my cd collection was very much appreciated - a cheap Apple usb cd drive did the trick.  While the Sony and every other server/player/streamer is slooooow in doing so, the HAP excelled at adding my tunes via WiFi as well. That too was slow but I could slap many tunes there and batch load.  Really well made product.  

Meadowlark speakers were also concerned with time alignment/coherence along with exceptional build quality and, depending on your tastes, aesthetics as well.  From what I’ve been able to cull off the interweb thingy, Mr McGinty was a “ poor business man “ who wanted to produce good speakers, period. 

And they are.  From the Kestrels on up they offer remarkably “true” sonics. Although compared to Thiel they struck me as somewhat less lively in the mids and highs, I found them to be one of my personal faves.  My girlfriend still has a pair of Kestrels that I gave her around 5 years ago. While the cabinet veneers could use some refurbishing, the solidity of the cabinets themselves is rather impressive - especially considerate of the fact that they set me back around $500 for the pair. 

Good stuff. 

The answer is B. A. T. 

I had a 300 Watt model (4ohm load) - very close to the sonics of a Pass Labs only just a smidgen less “bright.”   When I played my 3.6’s louder than usual - which made them show extraordinarily well - the B. A. T.  was up to the task.  More money but worth it. 

The 3.5 is a remarkably good speaker. I’ve had 3 pairs paired to amps that were capable of 300 watts into a 4,ohm load.  I never came remotely close to that.  

The bas eq is indeed a must for making them sound as Thiel intended.  Though I’ve never blown a speaker in my life the 3.5 mids do not suffer abuse well. If you can make sure they’re working prior to purchase - the repair/investment is about $300 apiece if they aren’t. 

And worth every penny.  I had a pair repaired by Rob a few years ago. 

I once used a Placette passive preamp with my 3.5’s and found that the bottom end pretty much dropped out.  Figuring I’d remove as much as I could between the speakers and the amp I assumed I’d squeeze just a tad more “everything” I got from the speakers...

What I got was a very bright, harsh top end and a virtual removal of the bottom end - something the 3.5’s excelled in providing.  No knock against the Placette - it would probably have seen better synergy with a more colored amp then my Pass X150.5 was, so I just popped my ARC preamp back in the chain and resumed chasing the audio dragon. 

PS:  I am currently in the agonizing process of rebuilding my two channel setup after having a spectacularly sh*tty run of bad luck this summer past. Fortunately, owning relatively expensive stuff does allow for one to raise cash when such happenstances as mine drop in for a visit. Were it not for this “hobby” of chasing the audio dragon my situation would have been considerably worse. What I sold off covered my attorney fees!

At the moment the best equipment I have is a pair of Meadowlark Kestrel loudspeakers - a very worthy substitute/stopgap for Thiel - that I recaptured from my girlfriend. (I’d given them to her a few years back)
Those, along with a Marantz 2250b receiver and an Oppo disc player, now comprise my “audiophile” setup. *Sigh*

I’m awaiting the arrival of a Bluesound Powernode 2 which will become the temporary heart of my system for the time being.  While the Marantz/Meadowlark thing worked well in her house, it simply didn’t in mine.  

Anyway...this thread continues to set the proverbial bar for the manner in which threads are sustained over time.  My journey here and the info received from unsound, jafant, and many others has been immensely enjoyable.  Tom Thiel - your expertise and technical proficiency leave me absolutely agog in wonder - I hope you don’t mind the humble opinions from someone who doesn’t know a mosfet from a misfit.  But I know what I like...

Hoy hoy!  Keep it up!

catalysis...

Thanks!

No doubt my next round of appropriating equipment will have a MUCH shorter list of possible brands - Pass and Thiel topping it depending upon locality, finances, etc.  Though it pained me to let my stuff go I did so knowing it wasn’t the finale, simply a temporary setback. 

It’s almost refreshing actually.  A clean slate is a good thing in many ways.  I’m 61 now, soon to turn 62, so the years I have ahead of me are far shorter than the years I have behind me.  Not a whine, just a fact - and time too constricted to burn through equipment as I have for the last 5 years.  In no particular order...
Thiel (4), Magnepan (3), Audio Research (2),  B. A. T. (2), Placette, Von Schweikert (2), Vandersteen, Modwright, Sony Hap, Oppo, Marantz Turntable, McIntosh (2), Musical Fidelity (2), Project Turntable, Primare, Primare Phono, First Watt, and more cables and connects than you can swing a dead cat at...

Sane or insane?

brayeagle....

Ha!  Good points.  

I went to an integrated amp because I came to the conclusion all that coming and going WAS about the gear rather than the music. Not 100%, but on more than just a few occasions I found myself suspecting 
SOMETHING in the chain wasn’t to my liking.  Dumb. 

While I dug the processes of firing up the separates, the procedures involved, the NASA-like regimented routine, waiting for warm up, running down the check list began to make me feel like Major Tom, if not altogether a major d**k. 

My last integrated was a Modwright Instruments KWI-200, no slouch by any measure. (With CS 3.6)  When I called to see if I could replace the flimsy plastic remote, I was put on the phone with Mr. Modwright himself. What???  Yes, the owner himself got on my call to discuss a preamp possibility - and I related that I had obtained the unit second hand.  He didn’t mind.  Modwright will top my return list. 

And Thiel. 

While this submission may have wandered off the reservation a bit so far as subject matter, my single most reason for being here in the first place  begins with Thiel. Kids, these speakers make ANYTHING sound better no matter what gear you own. At first. 
Then it becomes a pursuit to find better amps, better preamps, cables, sweaters, socks, and underwear.  In a word, Thiel rocks.  On the used market they are incontestable bargains.  As I’ve said before, Thiel is an investment not an expenditure. They’re worth every penny owning, maintaining, and enjoying. 

There red is no better resource for “ Thielia “ than this thread - it is fast becoming the most contributed-to thread on the site. 

Thiel reveals!

vairobert68...

Indeed.  Like you stated I assumed a passive preamp would involve the very least possible of any coloration getting in between my power source and my Thiels. My power sources, imho of course, were nothing to sneeze at. 

If I recall correctly my cables were all Transparent - the entry level series, I forget their exact name. 

Perhaps another brand of speaker would have benefited from the assumed result, but as I have, and many others here have stated as well, “Thiel reveals.”
Purity in purity out - perhaps my ears could not wrap themselves around all that uncluttered, unfiltered sound?  I could not imagine any other piece of equipment at the time that could be faulted for my non-appreciation of the passive.  Sheesh. 

I picked up the Placette from a fellow member here who, prior to selling it to me had it fronting a Plinius amp. I believe he moved up the line. He was quite enthused about it, as was I. 

Becoming a member of this site and being able to procure interesting stuff has ruined me - damn you, Audiogon!!!  I would never have discovered Thiel in the first place had I not stumbled upon this site as I searched for some vintage stereo receivers. Now I look back upon my purchase history here and cannot help but be surprised at the $$ spent and the equipment moved in and out. 

But I digress again.  I would not suggest to anyone that a passive pre is not a good match for Thiel. In fact I’d love to be able to put such a setup together again.  Time will tell...

I continue to find this thread a most enjoyable addiction simply because the technical and emotional aspects being bandied back forth appeal to either camp in ways that neither can fully reason.  To have gained the in-depth background that Tom has supplied on Thiel is to admire even more the man and the brand.  Though most of what Tom has explained within this forum goes way over my head, it all turns out to be in pursuit of the emotional - which is why I joined the dialogue here in the first place.  

Thiel was not the first speaker that “wowed” me. In my wayward youth, saving up for my first stereo system, I was impressed by most of the popular brands at the time, Advent, Acoustic Research, etc. However, Thiel was the first speaker to show me that my ears weren’t necessarily paying close attention to much back in them days. 

When I got my first pair of Thiel speakers, CS2.2, I hooked ‘em up, flipped on the integrated, tossed in a cd, and as I walked back to sit down I literally stopped dead in my tracks.  I was hearing something I never truly heard before even though I had listened to that record a hundred times before. What I had enjoyed before was now being presented in an entirely different manner. The sound was organic, void of coloration. The influence they had upon what was a pretty meager low-fi arrangement was immediate and tangible.  It wasn’t just one part of the spectrum that had improved, it was the entire spectrum, the whole Megillah...For lack of a better description my stereo found something more harmonious, more natural.  Things simply synched. 

Many years ago I was at a party standing next to a fellow guest whom, for no immediately apparent reason, started humming along to some music that was playing in the background.  A few more minutes flew by and her humming evolved into singing.  As her volume increased I remember FEELING the timbre in her voice, the tension, in my bones.  No mic, no amplification, an acoustically unfriendly room stuffed with people and ambient noise, and I was floored. That’s a “wow” moment if ever there was one. 

Thiel CS2.2 did that to me, too.  Thiel makes ANYTHING sound better than it deserves to be. All it takes is your first pair.  

PS:  it’s a slow journey back to my “hifi”.  Today I hooked up the new Bluesound Powernode 2i to my Meadowlark Kestrels. The Blue is a streamer/server powered with class d amplification.  This is the most modest “system” I’ve had in over a decade - and it IS modest indeed. It is SMALL. My cabinet looks empty - especially after having previously accommodated Pass, BAT, and other dimensionally superior equipment. 

But ya know what?  I am more than a little pleased with how this thing and the Kestrels sound.  I discovered a pair of Synergistic Research speaker cables in my snakepit and hooked them up.  Overall the sonics are very even keeled - the Kestrels share a good deal of Thiel-like attributes. Expecting a “this will have to do for a while” resignation  I found that I have a “this ain’t so shabby at all” thing going on.  

Now, if only a cheap pair of 2.2 or 2.3’s would become geographically desirable...

On the subject of cable/equipment “burn in”...

I’ve been in the wine business for my entire adult life. Some folks consider me an “expert”, most others far more advanced in this profession than I  respect my experience and opinion. 

It continues to impress me how some of my colleagues are able to extract nuances and/or subtleties in a wine that I miss, and vice versa. There are people attuned to things that I am not and it’s a helluva lotta fun to sit around listening to how they arrive at their opinions, and my own as well. 

Can one hear the changes produced at a cable’s molecular level by running current through it for a while?  I have to say yes in all probability because,  in my profession I’ve witnessed folks correctly guessing the origin of a wine, it’s vintage, even it’s vineyard location - tasted in a blind setting.  That I may not be able to detect any difference doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of it. 

In fact it serves to magnify it.  

High Performance Stereo has had a pair of CS3.5 with EQ listed on its site forever and a day - $1000 with availability in New York or “along the I95 corridor.”

I have never conducted business with them in the past; reluctant because they rarely tender any useful information regarding their wares, and the accompanying photos - when they post photos - are pretty poor. 

Has anyone here ever had a transaction with them?

Without being able to inspect them - especially the mids - I thinks they be way high at $1000.  I may tender a lowball offer of $500 simply due to the fact that they’ve been listed for so long...

PS:  I have made this offer to anyone here before - if you live within a reasonable distance of my zip 11755, I have a complete pair of 3.5 innards - woofers, tweeters, mids, crossovers, and speaker emblems. 
The mids are kaput - the other drivers worked fine. 
FREE - but only if you pick ‘em up.  I gave away the EQ to a fellow member here earlier this year.  

And a happy Thanksgiving to all

thielrules....

I see that the 3.7’s have an efficiency rating of 90db whereas the 3.5 is 88db. Does the efficiency difference offer a better low-level listening experience with the 3.7?  I’ve been able only to move up the food chain to the 3.6 which, in my humble opinion, did not offer the range at low listening levels although it did typically Thiel stuff when I went out of my comfort zone. 

Congrats on grabbing that pair!

unsound...

You were the very first member to relate the merits of the 3.5’s to me and once again I have learned more. 

I mis-spake (new word!) about sensitivity/efficiency and your input cleared that up.  Much appreciated.  

I had lived with a pair of Klipsch Epic CF-3’s for a period far longer than I have with any Thiels. (Entirely Audiogon’s fault, mind you.)  Those old Klipsch had a sensitivity of 101db, capable of being driven with a tabletop radio but - and oy vey! - those compression horn loaded tweeters really got to me after a while.  At one point, just before I removed the drivers and turned the cabinets into bookcases, I had actually stuffed a pair of white crew socks into the horns to eradicate the brittle quality.  Solely for aesthetic reasons shortly thereafter I used some foam.  Neither attempt resulted in resolution to the perceived problem so...bookcases. 

Don’t ask.  I am less of a carpenter than I am a technically proficient “audiot”, but it struck me as a good idea at the time.  

Anyway...it might be misconstrued by some followers of this thread that I didn’t like the 3.6’s. They were typically excellent Thiels - unbelievably “true” sounding from top to bottom.  It was only at my very conservative listening levels that they didn’t, couldn’t (?) deliver that natural, organic bass.  Pushed a little beyond my norm they were as wonderful as the 3.5’s. 

Thiel makes ANYTHING sound good, period.  I’ve thrown just about everything at the Thiels I’ve owned - class a, class a/b, class d, monoblocks, tubed and passive preamps, and they all benefitted from Thiel. 

If I didn’t discover Thiel from this site I would probably still have that old Pioneer pushing them Klipsch...

tomthiel... 

I reside in Lake Grove,  N. Y.   Very close to Stony Brook University.  Again, free for pickup only. 

I haven’t looked at them in a while but I remember the serial numbers were sequential.  

The Kids are alright...

My oldest brother’s son is getting married this coming October. 

I’ve attended many weddings over the last few years, too many, in fact all of them, using deejays for the reception celebration.  

Recently my nephew’s sister threw a housewarming party. As it turned out it served also to announce HER wedding plans.  Sheesh.  

During this get together I was talking with my nephew about his affair and he related that he and his fiancé had spent the week prior auditioning bands for their reception.  

“Bands?”, I asked. “Bands - actual bands?”

His fiancé overheard my question and quickly sided up to my nephew adding,” We settled on this great nine piece band from the Island.” (Long Island, that is)

I gave her a big fat hug, kissed her on the cheek while shaking my nephew’s hand. 

“Thank you for NOT having a $&@??!!** deejay!”

I had their attention for about five more minutes when his fiancé explained that a partial reason why they wanted a live band was due to the fact that the speakers I gave to my nephew a few years ago - a pair of CS3.5 - had them listening to different genres of music.  They started exploring different genres because what they usually listened to “sounded so good” through the Thiels...

A nine piece...

I’m pinching myself already.  

I said it before...THIEL MAKES EVERYTHING sound better.  

Happy new year, folks