I have not yet used it at all for HT. I got it mainly for 2ch stereo. So when I finally end up watching my music DVDs, I suppose I'll be REALLY impressed. I chose a universal player for just that reason. The 95 replaced a totl Rotel dedicated cdp. Didn't notice any difference. Oppo has a great rep for progressive innovation. Here's an example. |
Understood David. I too have recently become immersed in streaming Tidal and bought a few 192/24 downloads from HDtracks that sound superb. All using an Aurender N100H server/renderer/streamer as the source to the different DACs. I have found that Ethernet cables, USB cables, and great power cords linking these "computer audio" components make even more difference to the sound quality of each than cables/cords to my other equipment. For example, the MW Elyse and the HD-12 love the WW Platinum Starlight 7 USB cable but it is almost unlistenable with the Exogal (way too lean and bright), which greatly prefers the Curious USB cable. All, including the Aurender, seem to respond well to the SR Ethernet Active UEF SE cable which I found to make a very positive difference over a 1 meter generic CAT7 cable from my router/modem to the Aurender. I really like the Exogal Comet Plus (and the HD-12 for that matter - very smooth and easy to listen to), especially with hi-rez downloads. Yet, each time I return to the MW5400ES with redbook or SACD I am reminded of how very, very good the sound quality of that piece is. My inquiry of you for recommendations of DACs in the <$2.5k range that offered comparable sound quality to the MW5400ES/MW205 was asked in all earnestness and I appreciate your earnest response. Best to you David, Dave |
@dlcockrum Hi Dave. My comment was about usability / functionality. I respect what Modwirght does with their own products and also with their mods and would be happy to own one. I have come close on many occasions, most recently one of their preamps (I went with a Pass XP-20) and seriously considered the early offer from Modwright to mod the 205 since I was in the earliest wave for the 205. I have not had the pleasure to listen to a Modwright 205, so I can’t comment on sound quality from a comparative perspective. I was exposed to the older mods, and with the Sony ES CDPs...and the mod was a good investment for those who went that route. For me, the decision would be around having two boxes vs one, and I would, and have, erred on the side of two boxes. It simply provides me with more options. I have moved almost entirely to streaming (the 105 sits unused). In fact, I continue deeper down that rabbit hole as I am actively considering bringing another box into the mix...the dCS Network Bridge or something like the Antipodes DX. |
David, Agree that network-based audio changes things up due to the limited streaming/rendering capability of the 205. On comparative sound quality of the MW mod vs a $1k to 2.5k DAC, I have owned 2 so far. The Hegel HD-12 and the Exogal Comet Plus DAC. Both are good DACs in that price range and definitely have their strengths but neither come close to the overall sound quality of my MW5400ES IMO. It comes very close to the excellent purpose-built $7k retail ModWright Elyse DAC I have on loan from a friend. I know that you have a great system and ears. Do you have recommendations for DACs in the $1k to 2.5k price range that can equal the sound quality of a MW-modded 205 for those using disc media as their primary source? Dave |
If one's usage is primarily physical disk based, then the Modwright Mod makes sense. Also, if one has significant space limitations, and can only house one box, then modding the 205 is a good choice. However, if one has moved into streaming and network based audio, then a stand alone DAC makes much more sense. There are any number of excellent options from just under 1K to 2.5K. |
ozzy’s comparative ratings of the sound quality of the DirectStream DAC (10) and the 205 (6) seem right on. 4 points is huge! The cost to close at least three of the four points is anywhere from $2500 for the ModWright 205 mod to about the same (possibly less with proper selection) for an excellent used DAC and the necessary digital cable to connect to the 205’s digital output, BUT no SACD through the external DAC. The Modwright tube mod delivers it all, including SACD playback, for $2500. Many pay far more than that for 1 point or less of improvement. Food for thought FWIW. If you think that the ModWright mod will make no improvement or, more ridiculous, make the sound quality worse, you really need to hear a ModWright modded-player for yourself. Dave |
Well, what happens when you use the Oppo PCM digital outs to the Tascam a red error message pops up on the Tascam saying copying is illegal. But, if you place the Tascam in the record/pause mode before getting that message then you can copy it. I have also just used the analog outs from the Oppo. Reminder this is already an upgraded quality (albeit 16/44) signal from the Oppo Dacs. I then set the Tascam record resolution to 24/96 or 24/192hz. That copy actually comes out very good. I mean after all the analog outputs is really what we amplify and listen to, isn’t it? ozzy |
@gdhal From the Oppo 205 manual: "Due to copyright restrictions, SACD audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to SACDs, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections." "Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in their best quality, please use the HDMI connection..." This pretty much rules out copying SACDs to a Tascam DA-3000. Although perhaps this could be done through an in-line HDMI-to-USB converter? However, the purpose of those devices is typically to convert from USB to HDMI, supported by a PC-connected software driver. Not sure whether the conversion could be bidirectional. |
I have the OPPO 205 plugged into the balanced inputs of a MAC MA7900. The audio output stage of the OPPO is about as sophisticated as they get with exceptional DACS. Can't say that I have heard a better CD player. When combined with the UHD Blu Ray capability it has to be one of the best buys on the market. They (OPPO) are simply the best at innovation. Have had many of their products. They know industrial design and are well aware of how their products will be used. |
a25105, lancelock is probably right about the Modwright mod improving the sound quality of the 205. But if you add the cost of the mod to the cost of the player, it is getting close to the PS Direct Stream territory. If the PS Dac is a 10 then the 205 in stock form would be about a 6. I didn't buy the Oppo 205 for 2 channel listening since I already owned the PS Audio Dac. I bought it to play 4K movies and to record the Hi-Rez audio from Blu ray concerts to my external hard drive ozzy |
@a25105, the UDP-205 sounds phenomenal. Trust me, and the scores of others on the AVS forum owners thread. That said, I do take delight in knowing that while my system already sounds great (Oppo UDP-205 >> Musical Fidelity M6si >> Golden Ear Triton Reference), I can at least believe/hope (never know until you get there yourself) that it should only get better with an outboard DAC. What that DAC will be remains to be seen, and at such time I'll use the Oppo as transport. By the way, there are six usable and one diagnostic digital filters that one can choose from. I've found the default Mini Phase Fast is best. Point though is the sound can be tweaked. XLR and RCA are the same, with the exception that XLR is +6db hotter. |
@a25105 , I wished I could comment on the stock 205 but mine was sent direct to modding. The new ESS 9038 DAC chip is supposed to be superior to the older 9018 and from my experience having a modded 105, there is quite a difference. More analog like to me. If im ranking my DS DAC a perfect 10 then I would rank the modded 205 a 9. Ozzy also has very good points about the mods and I was lucky to get mine early enough to get a considerable discount. |
Thank you Ozzy and Lance for your inputs. How would you rate the analog out performance of the 205? At least half as good as the Directstream or not even close? I am currently using a Parasound Halo integrated as a DAC/preamp (it has a build in ESS 9018) and I just ordered a Oppo 205, just wonder if this is going to be better? |
@lancelock The thought of modifying the 205 crossed my mind as well. A few issues trouble me with that idea though. One, the warranty with Oppo is voided. Two, the expense to get the full mod I understand is between 2 and 3 grand. At that point, a new Shiit Yggy or Mytex Brooklyn DAC just makes more sense (to me). Third, I would be without the 205 for a month or longer while I await the modification. Lastly, there is always a chance (however small) a third-party modification could make things worse. |
@ozzy , I must chime in. Once the 205 has been modified, in my case Modwright tube output stage with separate power supply, the Oppo does come quite close to my DS DAC. It was extremely close before I loaded Huron. i think the UDP-205 has an excellent DAC chip and mearly needs attention in some other areas. So modding is another alternative to adding a separate DAC. The "Swiss Army knife" can become a special forces tool. Lance |
a25105, Well I finally did a head to head test between the Oppo 205 XLR analog outs and my Bryston BDP-2 / PS Audio Direct Stream Dac analog outs with the latest Huron firmware. Both were playing the exact same songs from the same external hard drive. There really was no contest, notes were fuller and more life like with the PS Audio. Music was way more defined with the ability to pick out individual instruments. The Oppo 205 played well and I could see it being used as a all purpose player/Dac until it is compared to much more serious equipment. The Oppo perhaps has about 100 hours of playing time on it so it will get better. However, the gap is way too large to change my opinion. But, for such a ("Swiss army knife") device the Oppo 205 is great. Play your 4K/Blu Ray movies using the Oppo's analog outs instead of the HDMI/Digital outs and you'll see what I mean. What fantastic surround qualities. And the video... The only problem is the over head Atmos channels can't be used with the analog outs. ozzy |
...Personally, I would not buy anything from Schiit. I was treated badly and charged 50% of the purchase price for a return on an item that I only had for 2 weeks and was like new when it was returned. Albeit the item was originally about $150 but 50% was a bit much for restocking, shipping, customer service etc. charges. Never again, there name is appropriate... @ozzy That is unfortunate (for me) to read. Were you within the 15 day return windows? |
Interesting discussion. Seems to suggest that the 205 is good if you need the transport & connection features. For strictly DAC quality, a similar priced, well designed, dedicated product (including the Sonica DAC) will likely result in better sonic quality. I'm curious because I have a Resonessence Concero HD as my DAC, but I also would like a transport. Was hoping that the 205 might serve that purpose and meet or exceed the Concero DAC. I would appreciate any comments between them, especially if you have experience with both. Thanks As a side note, the Resonessence designers came from the Sabre DAC design team, so they know the Sabre chips well. I have heard the Resonessence Veritas ($2850) which wasn't a huge improvement over the Concero for over three times the price. However, the Mirus Pro ($6000) was the best DAC I have heard, but also seven times more costly. |
a25105, I still haven't connected the Oppo 205 to my 2 channel system to compare it to the PS Direct Stream. But I will perhaps next week. dbphd, I am using Dish, way better picture and sound quality over my previous Comcast. Personally, I would not buy anything from Schiit. I was treated badly and charged 50% of the purchase price for a return on an item that I only had for 2 weeks and was like new when it was returned. Albeit the item was originally about $150 but 50% was a bit much for restocking, shipping, customer service etc. charges. Never again, there name is appropriate... ozzy |
@gdhal Hi. You are welcome. Unfortunately I can't answer your specific question. I did not use the 205 as a transport with digital coax out to the Yggy. I'm setup for network based streaming (nearly 100% now). And yes, Coax or Optical are the only two Digital Outputs from the 205. I'd be open to the optical out as well...never hurts to try. There are converters, but then you'd be adding another box and cables into the mix. The only way to know for sure is to borrow one (the Yggy) and try it out for yourself. Or order it and opt for the return should it not be what you were expecting. The upside to ordering is that the current Yggys will have the new Gen 5 USB board. Personally, I consider the Schiit Yggdrasil to be an exceptional DAC. I've upgraded cabling, optimized the USB stream, etc. all with very positive and marked results. For me, it's one of those no brainer recommendations. But as you know, no component is perfect and everyone's preferences are their own. |
@david_ten Thanks for your informative post. I currently own an Oppo UDP-205. Like you, I was part of the pre-rollout wave. At the moment, the 205 is my primary and best source. I am rather pleased with its overall performance and sound quality. However, I do intend to upgrade (i.e. am hopeful and would like too upgrade) my front end source and I'm giving serious consideration to the Schiit Yggdrasil. If I purchase the Yggy, I intend to use the Oppo as transport using its 75 ohm coax output to the Yggy 75 ohm coax input. I see no other choice but optical which I'd like to avoid. Given the aforementioned and in your opinion, should I expect to hear a *noticeable* improvement in sound quality? |
I’ve owned the 83SE, the 95, the 105, and was in the pre-rollout wave for the 205. Since comparative questions have been asked , I also have the Schiit Yggdrasil as my primary DAC and I have the Exogal Comet-Plus - Ion combo as well. My reasons for bringing the 205 in were very specific and unique to my situation..which doesn’t mirror the 205’s usual usage by the vast majority of 205 owners. I will state that I have not been a big fan of the previous generation Sabre Chips as implemented in general. For the older Oppos, I did / do like the audio signature and lived with it, but didn’t love it. I have found all Oppos that I have owned to be fantastic products from a fantastic company that punch way, way above their street price. Their business model is worth emulating, their customer support is exemplary, and product quality outstanding. The Sabre 9038 implementation has come a long ways, for my ears and preferences. It is the first Oppo DAC output I could be happy with and enjoy in stock form. And if modded, could very well serve as the only DAC I might need. I also believe it is unwise to compare the DAC of the 205 to "well thought of" stand-alone DACs in say the 1.5K and above range. To me it is an unfair comparison, given all the other functionality the Oppo brings to the table. For the 205, I only evaluated the USB in and Optical in. This was conducted after the Oppo was fully run-in for a week (Oppo recommends about a day). The system was exactly the same for the Yggy and the Oppo. The Ion is a dedicated amplifier for the Comet, so in this case the amp was different. All other aspects were the same. I utilized the stereo XLR analog outs for the Oppo. Please keep these parameters in mind since my evaluation was for a very specific and narrow purpose and to fill a temporary niche in my system. With USB in (same chain in for all three components) the Yggy was clearly better to my ears, as was the Exogal Comet Plus. The difference was not night and day, but I could clearly tell what I preferred. In other words, I did not need an extended back and forth parsing to come to a conclusion. Optical in was very poor in comparison. Something may have been off with my particular unit’s optical input/processing, because it should not have been so dramatically bad in comparison to the Yggy and Comet. To be sure I was making the right decision, I lived with the 205 in my system for two days after conducting my evaluations and came back to the other components for a few days. I then ran the 205 again after that for another day of listening just to be sure, once again. I did return the 205 since it did not meet my needs. Please note, that in no way am I saying that I did not like the 205. I am saying it didn’t do what I needed it to do for my particular situation and that I preferred my primary DAC. I see the 205 being brought back into my system in the future when I can fully take advantage of all that it offers. In the meantime, I have a 105 sitting unused which I can bring into my system should I need to fill that temporary role until my HT is set up properly. |
The OPPO 205 may have an HDCP conflict with other digital equipment when the OPPO becomes aware of another piece of equipment connected digitally through HDMI. @buckhorn_cortez I believe many of those issues are discussed on the AVS forum. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-blu-ray-players/2821841-official-oppo-udp-205-uhd-blu-ray-player-o... So I agree with you that certain connections to certain devices can present an issue. Fortunately, I do not have the drop-out issue as I'm connected via HDMI to my Samsung UN65KS9800. Don't hold your breath for a quick fix. Glad you found a work around though. I was among the first to obtain a UDP-205, and reported a problem - which they have acknowledged - whereby if you play in gapless mode and choose to display remaining time, only the screen via HDMI shows time remaining. The unit itself continues to show time elapsed. This is not the case if not using gapless playback. |
DACs aside, for those considering buying the OPPO 205, there is something you need to know if you plan on using it for a home theater system as well as listening to audio CD's. The OPPO 205 may have an HDCP conflict with other digital equipment when the OPPO becomes aware of another piece of equipment connected digitally through HDMI. If there is an equipment conflict, the audio from the OPPO 205 will drop out for 2-3 seconds at random intervals. The HDMI connection with the OPPO causes it to make HDCP calls to some brands of video display equipment when both are connected via HDMI in the HT system. I've chased this problem for nearly a month. At first, I thought it was a Sony Bravia making HDMI CEC handshake calls because you cannot turn the CEC feature "OFF" on the Sony - and the Sony is never really powered "OFF," it is always in a standby mode unless unplugged from AC power. However, through a number (over 10) of email exchanges with OPPO technical people on the dropout problem, I finally got an email reply from OPPO admitting they're aware of the dropout problem and "hope" to fix it with a firmware upgrade at some undetermined, later date. Apparently, the OPPO 205 is sending out HDCP queries and when the Sony does not answer, the player momentarily times out. This only happens when playing audio CD's. In my system, the OPPO is used with the OPPO 205 analog outputs, and is also connected to my HT processor through HDMI for use with DVD / BluRay playback. Dropouts will also happen if the OPPO is connected directly to a video display using HDMI. My "fix" for the problem is to use an Atlona ETUDE EDID emulator between my home theater center (McIntosh MX122) and the Sony Bravia. The ETUDE acts as a buffer between the equipment. At this point I have not tested whether the ETUDE is stripping the HDCP request out of the data connection between the equipment, or whether, because the ETUDE is always "ON," it answers the OPPO 205 HDCP call with the EDID information from the Sony. Either way - no more dropouts with the ETUDE between the OPPO and the Sony.
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