@elizabeth is exactly right.
To take this concept further, the ideal setup of the service panel for cleaner audio would be to have your dedicated audio breakers grouped together at the top of the panel. Or at the bottom, if that's where the wiring enters.
So, if the lines enter at the top, your audio lines would be in the first breakers, same leg. Then the heavy duty appliances that you listed would be far away near the bottom split between Legs A and B. The theory being that the noise introduced into the panel would not be close to the audio breakers.
But, since the grounds and neutrals are shared, noise will still contaminate the rest of the panel to a lesser extent.
To take noise reduction even further, many audiophiles use a subpanel for their audio lines. This is a smaller dedicated circuit box attached to the main service panel.
When I expanded my system (which is very modest), I received step by step advise from our most experienced members on how to do this in my house. Now that I have a subpanel which has it's own ground and is tied to the service panel, the noise floor at my audio setup is extremely low. It helped in my case because I live in a prewar row home with a mix of old and new wiring.
If you had all new electrical installed in your home and the distribution of current draw is laid out well, you will be in very good shape with 2 dedicated lines. If you run that 2nd line, move it close to line #1 on the same leg.
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@elizabeth @lowrider57 ............Thank you both very much for all you replies... It really helped me see and understand so much more about electric wiring and breaker boxes.. Now when i looked at my breaker box my quad 20A breaker for my amp and preamp is on the bottom of leg 2. When my electrican comes and installed my other 20A dedicated line for my CDP should i tell him to relocate the 2 20A dedicated audio lines to the top leg 2 of the breaker box ? |
correction ...Not quad 20A breaker... quad 20A receptacle. |
I do not know if moving the wires in the box would actually matter. Sorry I cannot advise you on that.
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First, you're lucky to have all new wiring giving your panel clean connections. Mine is old, that's why I have a new subpanel.
The best position for the audio breakers is away from the high current appliances such as refrigerator, furnace, A/C, hot tub. I think you should try to have some space between the audio circuits and these appliances. Since it's newly wired it should be easy to relocate a breaker or two. My electrician moved some breakers to install the subpanel.
Imagine your amp, preamp breaker sits next to the refrigerator or A/C. Those appliances are always running, sending noise down the line to their connections plus your audio breakers. In this case, you would either move the audio breaker or move the appliance breaker.
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@elizabeth @lowrider57 ...Thank you guys ....... I will have my electrician see what he can do about moving the audio breakers or appliance breakers while he adds the new dedicated 20A line. So you are also suggesting the audio breakers be on the top of the leg and high current appliances below ..... |
Thank you guys ....... I will have my electrician see what he can do about moving the audio breakers or appliance breakers while he adds the new dedicated 20A line. So you are also suggesting the audio breakers be on the top of the leg and high current appliances below .....
This is exactly what I mean about people on this forum, who really do not know what they are talking about, giving out very questionable advice about "gimminks" and "tweaks" that can cost serious money and accomplish virtually nothing vis-a vis audio performance.
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Gee dynaquest4, what part of: ""I
do not know if moving the wires in the box would actually matter. Sorry I cannot advise you on that."" did you miss? maybe all of it? Smearing everyone since that is the easy way? Or because your theory is always right and everyones else actual experience is wrong? Whatever, please get over it.
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Well, @dynaquest4, perhaps you should question Jea our resident electrical expert. |
@dynaquest4.........All she was doing was trying to help me.And she did say that she say...Sorry i cant advise you on that...Which i appreciate that .. |
Tattooedtrackman.
06-18-2018 6:18amtecnik........ I can not do the Furutech FI-09 Rhodium IECs as i am using Shunyata King Cobra and Sigmas.
Curious why? I use the same power cables and it works wonders for me. Am I missing something or not understanding ?
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@tecknik.........First of all i the power cables (Shunyata Sigmas HC and Digital and King Cobra CX are 8 awg wire and not sure if they would fit with the Furutech. Second i paid about 6 k for the 3 power cables, why would i want to alter those? And if i ever wanted to sell them im SURE people would want original Shunyatas. |
And to me it would be like destroying them to put on furutechs , no matter how good they are. |
The advice I got was noise producer heavy load on separate leg of panel !!!!!
this from a guy who builds great amplifiers and speakers... |
Ah' there's the misunderstanding. The FI 09 NSF is a chassis mounted IEC male. Your reffereing to the FI 50 I believe for termination.
I agree with you , I wouldn't want to or would I change my King Cobra CX or Sigma NR plugs.
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There's a very in-depth chat over 40 pages on the Furutech GTX D NSF receptacle, FI 50 R NSF and FI 09 R NSF on WhatsBestForum.
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@tecknik.......Sorry if i misunderstood you... |
@technik.....Thanks ill look forward to reading it.... |
Just started to burn in my Furutech GTX d - r by putting it on my refrigerator freezer . I will let it burn in about 350 hrs or 15 days. I was not going to burn them in at all and let the components burn them in but that would really take forever or never burn in at all especially on my CDP.. In about a week or so i will put the refrigerator plug to the bottom outlet of the Furutech and will leave it there for the other week. Then i will repeat for the other 2 Furutechs. |
Please let us know after your burn-in process how the outlet sounds in your system, also if the outlets sound is constant or in need of additional burn in time.
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@lak I definitely will post the update.... |
@lak ........ I also read that you are using 5 Furutech GTX d-r,,,,,,,How many hours did you burn them in for? |
I read a lot of literature and posts quite a while ago about the very long and frustrating time people were having breaking in the Furutech rhodium and gold outlets. I burned mine in on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker for 30 days, I don't know how many hours would have actually been necessary on my cable cooker but I did the for sure thing ;-)!
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Ive found some threads about burn in time for the Furutech GTXd-r anywhere from 500 hrs to 1000 hrs. of burn in time. I will let them each burn in for 750 hrs. / 20 days. 10 days each on the top and bottom plugs plugged into my refig. I figure since its already hooked up to my refig i will just let it burn in more. It cant hurt |
@lak ..........Ok sounds good.... I think we are in the same neighborhood. Ill prob let them just burn in for the 30 days / 750 hrs. My mistake in the last post..20 days equals 480 hrs. |
Too bad i only have one refig. It will take me 3 months to burn in all 3 ... lol.. But there is not really no rush. Ive been using generic receptacles for a few years already. So i should hear a nice difference when i install the Furutechs. Will also be using the Oyaide Z2 dual duplex carbon fiber cover / aluminum base. And the Oyaide Z Single duplex carbon fiber cover / aluminum base. |
My refrigerator is continually "burning-in." It amazes me that veggies continue to be crisper, the glass shelves have more transparency, white wine stays fresher longer and the volume of the interior seems to be getting larger. Hard to believe but it is true. I can see, smell, taste and feel the differences. Unfortunately I cannot hear a difference. Bet if I tried harder I could.
Burning-in!! The critical element in achieving maximum product performance! |
@dynaquest4........... I was not going to say anything because i thought it was "Just my imagination , running away with me " as Mick Jagger says. But i swear the milk tastes alot colder since letting my Furutech GTX d r receptacle. No Joke !!! |
typo... But i swear the milk tastes alot colder since letting my Furutech GTX d r receptacle burn in... No Joke !!! |
Still chuckling. Burn in....what a concept. Next thing you know people will convince you that pre-freezing your stuff before burning in will make it sound even better. How is it otherwise intelligent people (well some of them) find themselves so gullible as to believe these wives tales?
Scams need suckers. |
Don't forget rule #1, do not listen to roberjerman or dynaquest4. |
dynaquest4, You may be on to something with the freezer idea... Now just go away |
Strange how truth trumps subjectiveness. Thinking about burning in my electric toothbrush. Who knows what differences that might make. 😂 |
Please don’t use "truth" & "trumps" in the same sentence. The latter doesn’t know what the former is. |
Let's not start another political thread. The current one is more than enough. |
@dynaquest4 I dont understand ....Am i reading your posts wrong ? Can you explain your posts better ? I am reading your posts as you say first > This is exactly what i mean about people on this forum , who really dont know what they are talking about, giving out very questionable advice about gimmicks and tweaks that can cost serious money and accomplish virtually nothing....Then you talk about your refrigerator continually burning in and the the food and drink stays fresher longer etc etc....Hard to believe but its true .YOU SAY...Then i replied that when i am burning in my Furutech on my refig line i said that my milk tasted alot colder ...I really do believe what i taste . As ridiculous as this sounds, i believe it. Then you write still chucking ....burn in ....what a concept......>>>> How is it otherwise intelligent people {well some of them} find themselves so gullible as to believe those wives tales. ....... To me there is more proof by reading what other people post about burning in receptacles than it does not need to or make any difference . At first i really did believe what you wrote about your refig keeping things fresher. Thats why i added what i believed about my milk seeming alot colder. And i still believe it. As unbelievable as it may sound. Now i see that you are " non believer " Can i ask you where your poof is about burning in receptacles means- makes no difference? I would really like to know that.. Please explain your proof.. I am only trying to find out what is true and not.. As this will also save me months and months from burning in my furutech receptacles on my refig...Thanks |
I am only trying to find out the truth and facts. I hope you understand and please dont take it personal.. |
Sorry, tatooman....those posts of mine are "tongue-in-cheek"...as in satirical. There is no proof that "burning-in doesn’t work; just as there is no proof that it does work. In high-end audio, what you think you hear is entirely subjective and powerfully influenced by what you WANT to hear (often called "expectation bias).
About the only thing I believe needs to be broken in are speakers - to loosen up tight new driver surrounds. There is absolutely no reason I know of to even think that you need a special receptacle much less need to "burn it in."
This camp (Audiogon) is composed mostly of people who want to believe that gimmicks, tweaks and tricks actually work. And they believe so strongly, their subconscious allows them to think they actually hear a difference. Again...expectation bias.
I’ve tried expensive speaker wire and interconnects and found them to be no better (except for cool looks) the good quality, inexpensive products.
There seems to be a rule here; if you spend a lot of money on something that seems strange, never confess that it doesn’t work and look the fool.
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The actual rule is if you do not like aftermarket wires and such, just keep posting drivel until no one wants to read it anymore .The flack and crap get to water down any actual discussion, until basically the nay sayers win. They are on a mission. Why I have no idea, but that they do this is clear. One way they do this is to GET YOU TO ANSWER their crap questions. This just gives them more ammunition to attack you. Plus wastes your time. Fills up the thread with useless stuff, and detracts from the main questions.
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@dynquest4....... Thank you for your unbiased opinion in what you believe and dont.. I appreciate you being straight and forward.. @elizabeth ....... I guess it all comes down to is what YOU believe will work and dont work. Naysayers will always believe in what they believe in as we believe in what we want to believe in. Is there really proof one way or the other? Maybe no.. |
My impression is most naysayers couldn’t care less about the item under debate. They mostly just like getting a rise out of the believers. It’s not as if they’re real skeptics. Been that way for like forever. Besides, most things aren’t even that controversial. |
@geoffkait My impression is most naysayers couldn’t care less about the item under debate.
Not necessarily. The OP asked for help and advice; if some of the advice is false and it might cost them, unnecessarily, a good amount of extra money, the OP should be told.
The idea that you need to install a dedicated 20A circuit to get better sound from your CDP is bogus. The idea that - if you put the ground leg on the top end of your breaker panel's ground buss, as apposed to the bottom end of the ground buss, will eliminate noise coming through the ground loop - is bogus The grounds are all commonly connected to the same ground loop....just sayn...Jim
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@jhills........... Thank you for your post.... I just want to tell you that i know that the 20A is not necessary for a CDP, but since it is on a non dedicated circuit (15A} I thought it would be better to put in on a dedicated circuit, and since i do have to run a dedicated circuit i thought it might be better to run a 20A dedicated line on my other wall by my CDP just in case of adding something else..Just in case....... Now let me ask you a question please, Do u think a CDP should be on a dedicated line? |
I wasn’t referring to the 20A dedicated circuit argument. Wasn’t that obvious? |
@tattooedtrackman I don't believe that a CDP necessarily needs to be on a completely dedicated circuit, but would avoid sharing a circuit with appliances or even a high currant power amp.
Because good conductivity and tight connections is important - I do believe in the use of quality receptacles and because there is a bit of noise and grunge introduced from appliances and even down line transformers, and minor voltage dips and spikes in nearly all residential electrical circuits - I do believe in the use of good power conditioners for both video and audio gear...Jim
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Yes you can put a 15 amp plug on a 20 amp circuit, but why would you want to?
You can also put a 20 amp plug on a 15 amp circuit, but you run the risk of burning down the house and everything in it. Oh yeah, and it's against pretty much every code for that reason!
Some people use 10 guage, but 12 Guage wire will handle both in a home setting, but the breaker might have to be changed to match the plug.
Hope this helps.
JD |
I recently bought a pile of power cords to replace some older ones.
Good improvement. So now I am getting some Furutech duplex. My BIG PLAN for breaking the five outlets all at once is to daisy-chain them.I have the eight extra Wattgate plugs I would need. Install the first Furutech in the wall, both outlets of each with plugs wired into the next one, (12 gaige wire) each side. repeat three more times. then plug my big system pair of plugs in to the top one. The new plugs get burned in, all five outlets get burned in.Yeah it will be interesting to HEAR my system with that in the wall.I figure I can leave them a month like that. (I am betting in 24 hours I will not notice it anymore)
The outlet is on a kitchen wall.. Just have to arrange to keep it untouchable.. for a month. (cover with a box?)
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Ahh rethinking the receptacles. Am only getting ONE new gold GTX-D to play with. Decided the others were half way stuff. And I am tired of foolishly buying halfway to just soon enough go all the way. up to the better ones So I cancelled the FPX ones.
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@elizabeth ..... I think the Furutech GTX -D-R Rhodium are better than the gold.... I bought 3...Still burning in my first one hooked up to my refrig. |
I wanted a 'warm' one to start with.I would think it is the easiest to 'hear' as a difference before I spend any more on receptacles.Plus I want to warm up my amp a little, maybe.
Curious I was also reading a thread with other folks high value of the Pass & Seymour (non audiophile) receptacles. I have separately been a fan of them for many years.Anyway trying out one high end well regarded receptacle should be good.
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