I know for a fact i that hear a difference with my upgraded Shunyata King Cobra CX PC for my ARC Ref 6 compared to the stock PC. Same goes with my Shunyata Sigma PC for my Krell FPB 600 and my Shunyata Sigma Digital PC Rega Isis CDP. Same goes for my StraightWire Crescendo ICs and speaker cable. I hear a big difference even from the lower end StraightWire Virtuso which i upgraded to Crescendo all the way around ...So i really think unless you try some higher end PCs and ICs and speaker cable you should not say that it is a waste of money and dont have any value of money. Our money im sure is just as important to us as to you. So i wall say once again if u never tried it you cant give an opinion one way or the other.
Replacing generic RECEPTACLES
How important is it to replace your generic receptacles with audio grade receptacles . I already replaced my stock power cords to high end Shunyatas. Would it still be necessary to still change my generic receptacles to audio grade?
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Yaysayers: Willing to spend money and experiment with different aftermarket items to see if they can improve the sound of their systems. Usually have high resolution systems that can reveal the differences (good or bad) that a tweek might bring. They will take the time to carefully listen and decide if there is an improvement in the sound, just a difference in the sound or no effect at all. It takes time & effort to do and is not for everyone. Naysayers: Not willing to spend the money, because there is no need, as the end result is already known to them. It can't possibly make a difference, so why bother. Nays like to argue with the Yays even after the Yays have actually done the experiment! They bring up expectation bias or a placebo effect or make negative remarks like: "Makes an audible difference" someone posted, no it doesn't . It can't , there is no logical reason for an outlet to upgrade sound…same goes for power cables" or " You have hundreds of fat of copper in your home and you think changing the last three feet of that is going to make a difference at what comes out of your speakers" or " Why waste more money on something that anyone really intelligent and logical would discern as a "gimmick." or " Yes...my mind is made up...because, among other attributes, I am intelligent and smart." or " Yaysayers seem to have no concept of the value of money and the value of products." Now, if you are not interested in getting the best performance from your system, why are you participating in these forums? Is it to make fun of Yays? Is it because you are too cheap to spend money & time to experiment? Or, is it that you just need to be right? STOP insulting those of us that have taken the time & effort to improve and appreciate our systems. |
I have. And can say there are major differences in the quality of plain old cheap ($3 to $5) receptacles. Some have internal metal parts which are thin and have little strength. (Particularly bottom feed cheap as can get ones And those cheap multi-outlet sorts) Other have four times thicker metal blades! (yeah even low cost ones) and really great ability to hold the inserted blades over years and years of abuse. MY praise goes to Pass & Seymour heavy duty outlets for being really well built. One other major difference between 15 amp and 20 amp is the fact the 20 have that ’extra’ strength due to the way the clamping is done on the one odd horizontal blade of the 20 amp plug.The design really is stronger than a 15 amp innards. Some high end actually use springs inside, like Furutech. Other are basically like the Pass & Seymour in design inside. |
Scratching my head, Why does anyone think that they need a 20A dedicated circuit for a CDP? I see the purpose for using a better outlet receptacle, as a better tighter connection and grip, is always a plus, but I see no purpose in having a dedicated 20A circuit for a CD player and no players that I know of that comes with, or requires a 20A cord. It would surprise me if any CDP or combination DAC and transport pulled more than 5 amps and there are very few power amps that actually require a 20A circuit and have or require a 20A cord. In fact lower amp equipment should not be used in high amp circuits. If something fails, something might burn before the breaker trips. I have built and wired a number of houses and garages all to UBC and NEC code and can tell you - both 15A and 20A residential circuits are commonly wired with the same 12/2 w/ground Romex wire.....just sayn...Jim |
jhills...I do not a dedicated line for my CDP but i did buy 3 Furutech GTX-d r receptacles. 2 of them will be used for my Krell FPB 600 amp and ARC Ref 6 preamp... The other one i wanted to put on a dedicated 20A line for my CDP . Can the Furutech GTX-d r be wired to a 15A dedicated line? I thought they were 20A receptacles. |
The electricity only is used as needed. As mentioned before, you can put a 2 watt nightlight on a 20 amp line. the night light happily draws 2 watts. No problem. Ditto your 20 watt electronic device. You may have 200 amp service to a big house, and at night while asleep, you may use as little as zero watts. the powerline is NOT exploding due to your lack of use. Like water in a pipe. it is happy to sit there until you turn on the faucet. There is no reason NOT to add a 20 amp line and use it for 20 watts. or for nothing. The line does not care if it gets used in any way at all. Think of it as a future use, maybe... |
@ Elizabeth. Kudos to you for disassembling a receptacle. I used to do this for a living and never contemplated doing that. I think the receptacle you described is a little over the top, but glad you like them. In a high current draw situation, if the connector, being the cord in this case, doesn't generate any heat at the connection, you're good. As I said earlier, a lot of small tweaks put together, can and does make a difference. My view is, as I said, you have diminishing returns after a while. I'll have to say, you're really getting down to the nitty gritty. I guess if you know you have done everything you can to improve your sound, it's very comforting. |
tattooedtrackman My point is: If you already have a 15A service with receptacles where you need them and there is not already a host of other devices plugged into that circuit - that circuit would be most adequate for your cdp and possible other devices. I can understand upgrading the receptacles and to a point, power cords, but installing a new 20A circuit for a CDP or even a CDP and one or two other components, is nonsensical....my professional opinion...Jim |
I should make clear on my previous statement - that is if your home is relatively modern with a good electrical system, or is an older home with a professionally upgraded electrical system. I can see the value in having a dedicated 20A circuit for your high draw power amps and large powered subs, however....Jim |
jhills In fact lower amp equipment should not be used in high amp circuits. If something fails, something might burn before the breaker trips.That's silly - properly installed 15A and 20A lines are equally safe. In each case, the breaker's function is to protect the line itself, not the device connected to it. Components have their own fuse or breaker for that purpose. There is no hazard in connecting a low-amperage device to a 20A line. |
@tattooedtrackman As long as there is already a circuit available where you need it and that circuit doesn't have other devices or appliances plugged into it, why create another circuit. Every circuit in your house is tied into the same ground and same neutral bars, adding another circuit isn't going to change that (for that you would have to add a complete new service and that would be a bit expensive) and you do not need a 20A circuit to run a CDP. Yes you can install a 20A receptacle where you need it, for the sake of getting a much better receptacle (no one will throw you in jail) and your CDP and other components will plug into it....Jim |
My digital equipment is on the same 20 amp line. HOWEVER my digital gear is on a separate power conditioner. My main conditioner is a Furman REF20i And my digital conditioner is a PS Audio P600 regenerator. Both both used here on the goN. For folks without multi anything.. I would suggest some ferrite clamps on the digital AC cords to help keep the grunge out of the system. |
@elizabeth ....My digital equipment is on the same 20A line... Do you mean also that it is a dedicated 20A line? I understand that it is also hooked up to a seperate power conditioner. Also you suggested ferrite clamps , i dont they would be large enough to put on my Shunyata Sigma digital AC cord which is 8 awg. . And also that it is a digital ac cord anyway i really might not even need the ferrite clamp. |
@tattooedtrackman, No, u don't need to install a 20A line for a CDP. But since your 15A AC line is native to your house, I'll bet there are other wall outlets with devices or appliances tied into that circuit. IOW, it probably is a shared line with noise being introduced from the other devices. And since u now have a 20A Furutech duplex receptacle, it makes sense to run a new 12 gauge line with new breaker. As Elizabeth explained so well, your CDP doesn't care if the circuit is 15 or 20 amps, it only draws the amount of current needed. But, in the future if you add more components to your system, you may wish you had installed a 20 amp circuit. |
I bought the PS Audio P600 exclusively to increase the AC power output FREQUENCY. I wanted to experiment with it after reading about AC frequency boosts improving sound (in Stereophile).I waited until I found one used for sale with the optional board it could use installed.I have no good or bad things to say about the PS Audio 600 other than it does the job I want it for. Out-putting AC voltage at 111Hz.I just read the new PS Audio "20" also is going to be able to alter the AC frequency. I guess they were actually listening to my rants that no one offers alternate AC frequency anymore and someone should! |
When i had construction done to my 2 bed rooms upstairs in my home back in 2009 , I wanted one big huge room with raised ceiling and 3 sky lights with 2 dormers. New hardwood tongue and groove floor. Fuji split zone AC on wall. Hard wood tongue and groove floor. 2 ceiling fans. 3 ceiling high hat flood lights with dimmer switches. Hard wired smoke detector. And about 12 15 A receptacles. Upgraded from 115v to 220v for home with new breaker box and breakers. Thats why i thought of running a dedicated 15A or 20A line for my CPD. This work was all done before i had any thoughts of putting together my stereo system. Since then i have only added the dedicated 20A circuit double gang box for my Krell FPB 600 and ARC Ref 6 . |
Audio Advisor has excellent ones builtvery solid bronze for $25,or gold plated Copper $50 both high on conductivity index ,and nightandday betterthen Any crap your house comes with,as well as better then anyhospital grade which is brass, bronze has 3x better conductivity ,Copper 4x , Just lookup resistance index online . |
On the other hand... That line may have nothing on it. One thing I always do when I move into a place is find what each breaker controls, (including ceiling lights and wall switches) use a label maker to note it on breaker box. Also the fact of having an incandescent bulb on, (with no dimmer) on a line actually REDUCES the noise. Really. A kind of noise trapper, for almost free. This does not work so well with LED though. LOL. |
@elizabeth Just checked the the line with the CDP receptacle. It is not on the same line as the ceiling fans. In fact there are only about 3 other receptacles on that line that is connected to my CDP. So i think i will be ok with just installing the furutech without adding the dedicated line . What do you think? Unless i want a 20A dedicated line for the future. But i dont need it right now. |
If you use that line. see which way the lines for it run. Is your use for CDP the first outlet from the panel? or others in-between? Many times the intervening outlets will have breaks in the actual AC lines vs the AC wire being intact and bent around the outlet connections. (if bent do not cut! leave it be, as the solid wire is better than any clean cut and held by screws. even if you have to leave the old outlets in place. bent AC line is hard to bend more, best leave it alone unless replacing the outlet) Also, you can improve the power by cleaning the wiring at each outlet (if it is cut to connect each outlet.) recut to have a fresh copper and tighten the wiring, making sure the connecting AC duplex are good and have strong means of connecting the wires. (NOT the slip in and a spring clip holds them, nor older duplex where the in wire and the out wire are on separate ends of the duplex using the bridge between the two sides of each duplex) In fact it might be best replacing the unused duplex IF they are in between the panel and your CDP outlet. but all you need are nice Pass & Seymour heavy duty. They connect the wires with a strong screw and plate which allows the AC in wires and AC out to be close side by side and a tight screwdown for max AC flow. that connection is as good as any high end outlet!(If you can’t easily tell if they are between or further out.. shut off the breaker and take out the unused ones, See if your wanted one still works when you turn the breaker back on. If it works then the others are past yours Go around the room and in series add them back.until your wanted one works. Then you know how many have to be upgraded. It they are all past your wanted one from panel, you can ignore them completely. One other comment, if you use a duplex with a thin ’bridge’ of metal from one outlet to the other in the duplex pair, a good audiophile trick is add a 12 gauge wire in the clamp with the incoming AC wire, and add it to join the bridge with a way better wire. to the second outlet in the duplex. I also mark which duplex outlet of the pair IS the one the AC wires are on directly, vs the bridged one. use the main one, not the bridged one first, or for higher current draw current item. A little label maker labels on the cover work great for this |
Testing for same leg: "" Say you have two lines running to the stereo equipment area. Say line A and line B Line A duplex The hot is the narrow slot (if the ground is on the bottom, the right slot) Within a single duplex: The neutral is the wide. or left slot AC voltmeter prongs in narrow and wide reads around* 120V AC voltmeter prongs in narrow and ground will also read 120V AC voltmeter prongs in wide and ground will read 0V (if you readings within a single duplex are different, the duplex is wired WRONG.) Same if you go to just line B duplex. same results within line B duplex However to test if line A and line B are on same or different legs. AC voltmeter prongs in narrow slot of line A (Hot) AC voltmeter other prong in narrow slot of line B (Hot) If this reading is 240 volts, you are using both legs. If it is zero 0V then you are using the SAME leg and are safe. To just mention (but these do not matter to the test) other connections. If you connect the AC voltmeter from line A wide slot to line B wide slot the reading will also be 0V no matter if one leg or both legs. If you connect line A wide slot to line B narrow slot 120V no matter if one leg or both legs. Line A ground to line B narrow will be 120V Same thing line B wide slot to line A narrow slot 120V no matter if both legs or one leg. Line B narrow slot to line A ground will be 120V * the voltage may be near 120V it may be 115V or may be 125V, but it will be close. Same thing wit the 240V reading, it may be somewhat off, but still near 240, 230 243 etc. |
@elizabeth ...... Elizabeth Thank you for the last 2 replies to me. I still really dont understand what you are talking about. And i appreciate your time writing all that. I will have my electrician in stall a 20A dedicated line for my Furutech GTX-d r for my CDP so i know for sure there is nothing else on that line. also that way if and when do buy a Shunyata power conditioner for my CDP i can use the 20A line too. |
Not sure i know what you mean by needs to be on the same leg of the service panel as my 20A dedicated line, same phase. And what do you mean by appliances? blender ? microwave? toaster? Im not trying to be funny but i have a dedicated listening room. Its not in my kitchen. The wiring in a residence is called split-phase and is divided into 2 legs. On the service panel you will see Leg A and Leg B. The goal in the panel is to even out the load, half the current draw on A and half on B. If you wire a refrigerator on A, then a second high current appliance such as air conditioning should be wired to B. Simply put, In an audio system, we want all the components on the same leg so there is minimal noise from other devices wired into the panel. And yes, I am talking about toaster, blender, refrigerator; all adding noise and interference down the AC line and contaminating the other circuits. Electricians are only concerned with balancing the current draw in the house, so roughly half from Leg A and half from Leg B. And they commonly will daisy chain several AC outlets onto the same breaker. The kitchen toaster outlet may be combined with the lights in your living room. If some of your audio system is wired to A and some to B, there is more risk of noise from the circuits in the other leg of the panel getting into your audio lines. A test for a shared line is to turn off the breaker to your CDP and see what other outlets in your house lose power. https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/13105/are-both-legs-of-a-homes-power-supply-equally-used |
@lowrider57 ........ I understand what you are talking about now.... You explained it very well.. And yes the CDP is on the same leg as my dedicated 20A line for my amp and preamp. I understand them now going on the same leg but like you mentioned both legs should be evened out. Lets say leg A has the Refrigerator, Jacuzzi, AC , TV.Microwave, and leg B has a tanning bed , big screen tv, and 2 ACs. Now both legs have appliances , so explain to me what that matters then. I understand u want to keep all the audio components on the same leg but if there are appliances on both legs why would it matter. Curious.... |
" but if there are appliances on both legs why would it matter. Curious.... " It matter due to those sorts of devices adding noise to the AC waveform on the line. The noise sort of wanders around if it is on the same line. that is why separate lines are a big thing to audiophiles. Now the noise may even get there anyway, and the power may already have a lot of noise from outside your home. It is just trying to cut down on the garbage in the AC power. |