Voices are dead in the middle. The sound stage is deeper and wider. It no loner sounds forward like it used to. It went from sizzle to smooth. I bought them from conus tubes in Canada. It is a more room filling sound. |
Calvin, Tell me of the soundstage, this is important!, Is it bigger?,Deeper?, non forward sounding?, does the sound come betwwen you and the speakers/ in the middle of your listening room?,, Did you buy your tubes from usa tube audio? |
Cool, they are just flat out better than the other two tubes the sovtek and the eh. They are just more balanced, clean and smoother than the others. |
Acalvinj, High fidelity cables are worth having, they do not compaire to Tara best cable models!,, you are convincing me to get the tubes you have!, Thankyou for getting back to me, you are cool!, as these tubes break-in, I would like to know your impresseions of the sound, I am on stand-by!, Ayon brothers! |
They don't sound forward. I would call them balanced detailed and refined. Balanced because the other tubes were forward in the treble and thin in the treble., too heavy in the midrange and weak in the bass area. The dr tubes are just more balanced and sound just right. It allows you to listen to the music as a whole. It is very smooth and enjoyable. You are right I should have got the 6h30 dr tubes in the first place. I also just hear the hi fidelity ct-1 cables. They sound really good. |
@ calvinj, whats up, tell me more of whats happened so far with the Dr tubes,can you be more specific? cheers. |
I did say get the Dr tubes in the first place,LOL! |
@ calvinj,, mmmmm, Do the new tubes sound forward right now?, Ayon brothers! |
@ calvinj, Hi, Did you get the new tubes installed yet? |
@audiolabryinth. The tubes made a huge improvement. I wish they would have told me to just by the 6h30 dr tubes in the first place. I am now going to keep my ayon cd2s. It is smooth natural and balanced from top to bottom. I am going to keep burning in the tubes but so far so good. Anyone who owns an ayon cd2s should use these tubes period. I will do another review in two weeks to update you my ayon brother. Lol. |
@ calvinj, remember, give the tubes 100 hours before you think about ripping them out!, I believe your other tubes would have sounded good if you let them settle in, I will be here, cheers. |
I will pick it back up tomorrow. I will have something up by Sunday. |
@ calvinj, Hi, If you report that these tubes work to your satiesfaction, I will consider buying some for my player, thankyou calvin. |
Thanks, I will be patient with these tubes.. Wish me luck. |
@ calvinj, please let them burn-in,I look forward to what you say after that happens, cheers. |
Supertubes have arrived they will be installed tomorrow will report after I Have them installed tomorrow. |
@ calvinj, no I no longer have the vincent player, we thought it was bleeding d/c into my amp, come to find out, the vincent player was not the problem, to late, we had audio visor refund us our money,this player is alot more warm and musical with the stock tubes than the Ayon 2s!!, the ayon is resolving on the treble and has over clarity, the vincent sounds very, very real, its spooky!, if you want a good deal on the fidelity cables, there is tons of them here on the audiogon used market currently!, Happy Hunting, and by all means, save yourself some money!, I bought 2 cables on my main system used!, cheers! |
Just tried hi fidelity cables ct1 out of Plano Texas . They are really good. Great micro details and balanced. Great transparency. Really good at details and treble extension. |
I thought about that one actually before I bought the ayon. I needed something smooth and warm. I also was told that the tube used is just a flat out better grade of tube than you can try on the ayon. It is warmer. Do you have the Vincent player now |
@ calvinj, I agree with you!, It is all about the music, If I thought I can use the Ayon 2s, why would I want to try something else?, I already said, The vincent tube hybred balanced $2,800.00,, now $2,500.00 brand new player is WAY better than the Ayon 2s!, I cannot use it with my amp!, You would be shocked at the sound once it breaks-in!, very musical and real sounding!, warm sounding, a perfect soundstage!, Bass to die for!, I may buy another one any way for my second system!, It uses 3-12ax7 tubes and 1-12au7 tube, 4 channel balanced, and a philips vam 1202 transport!, pcm burrbrown 1796 dacs!, wima caps and M-caps!,and a head-phone amp built in to boot!, I was extreamly happy with this un popular player!, Its sold at Audio Advisor!, cheers. |
Well we will see what happens. It actually wasn't sounding forward to me. Just trying to get good sound. First time with tubes. Usually a solid state guy. We will see what happens. I'm also not trying to buy a luxury car price in audio. Trying to get to a good place so I can enjoy the music. Don't wanna compare with the world just trying to get a good sound so I can enjoy the music. This hobby is interesting. So many combinations. So many different sounds and preferences. I've heard 7500 dollar systems sound better than 30000 dollar systems. Some people are never happy no matter how good it sounds. I'm gonna get to a good place and enjoy the music. That's what it was supposed to be in the first place. |
Well we will see what happens. It actually wasn't sounding forward to me. Just trying to get good sound. First time with tubes. Usually a solid state guy. We will see what happens. I'm also not trying to buy a luxury car price in audio. Trying to get to a good place so I can enjoy the music. Don't wanna compare with the world just trying to get a good sound so I can enjoy the music. |
@ calvinj, Hi, I have no idea why yull1375 does not talk no more, I hope I my cables was not imtimadating to him!, He is a really nice guy, I enjoy talking to him, I would like to see him come back!, calvin, you are a trip!, Please understand what I am saying!, your player takes 450 hours of break-in!, your new tubes will benefit your sound extensivly!, However, It will never fix the forward sound!, I really hope I get supprised that the Dr tubes fixed the forward sound!, I really do not believe that is possible!,, Also, please understand that all tubes need atleast 100 hours or more of break-in time when you tube roll!, I do wish you luck!, I would like for you to tell me all your findings, you are not a bad guy, just inexsperienced, no problem!, there is no way you will know your sound untill you achieve the proper break-in time!, cheers. |
@ yull @ labyrinth. I just bough tubes tonight. Waiting for them to ship. 6h30 dr. Wish me luck. |
@ calvinj, Let me know what happens, The best of luck! |
I'm gonna go for the super tubes. Not gonna play around with the cheap stuff. I'm trying to Win a medal |
@ calvinj, Hi, Your Ayon 2s player has to have 400 hours of break-in period with the stock tubes, then you can listen to the player a few hours and know your sound, after that, the eh gold pins 6h30 tubes, I would re-install, they, like any other tubes need 100 hours of burn-in to hear their potental, when you heard the new tubes, that was not their final sound, they, as I said, The new tubes will settle down and most likly, better the sound of the stock tubes. |
@yull1375. The ayon seems to going through a nasty break in period. I think it is at about 100 hrs at this point. I changed tubes but I didn't let them break in before I took them back out. I'm wondering how much break in is a factor and the player sounds completely different from when I first got it. I need more warmth out of my system. It was smooth at first and now is trending brighter. I have the sovtek stock 6h30 in right now. I didn't like the eh 6h30 gold pins that much. Any suggestions. Anyone can chime in on this one. |
@ audiolabyrinth. I tried the new eh 6h30 pi gold pins. It made ayon cd2s open up but it was bright sounding. No matter what I did it remained bright. It is focused on the midrange big time. Not as balanced as I would like. I put old tubes back in but it took a big step back. It was too forward but not open enough. It was a bad combination. I wanted to possibly try the 6 h30 dr tubes. I heard that try are great. They are just expensive. What do you think. Also if anyone reads this and they have the 6h30 dr tubes in an ayon cd2s or cd5s please chime in. I heard they are the best tubes by far. |
@ yul1375, Hi, Are you there?, Whats going on with the 5s now?, what cables are you useing?, What was the cable you switched out?, cheers. |
@ Yul1375, wow!, you are very good at this, are you a writer of some sort!, I highly enjoyed what I read here, very well explained, no confusion about what was described, I do not know if you had the opportunity to play with the settings of the esoteric K series, users claim that there are settings to give the illusion of tubes,, just on your descriptions of sound that you reported, I am very interested in an audition of the k-03, please do not take this the wrong way, I am not bragging here, I try to be modest, I have Taralabs the Zero Gold interconnects that have the most absolute full body sound with rich sound scapes holographic all over my listening room with complete focus, more less, the stuff audiophiles dream of with sound, and I have the matching speaker cables, the Taralabs omega gold speaker cables, I just bought the top of the brand Taralabs cobalt power cord with the oyaide plugs two weeks ago to go on whatever source I get, the cables and The krell 700cx will likly give the rest of the sound to the Esoteric If I go that route, I am going to defiantly audition before I buy!, who knows, I may get disapointed with esoteric, I hate analitical sound!, I love tube sound done right!,, I know this, what I am about to say may come to you as a shock, I do not change cables for componets, If a componet does not sound good with the cables that I have, that componet is gone!,, leaves alot less room for mistakes, instead of chaseing the cables by the tail syndrome, alot of money can be spent doing that!, and you will never find absolution, the cables I use are in the handful of best available, I can hear this and know it, so at the end of the day, The cables expose the componets for what they are really about!, the weakest link so to speak of, If there is one, I will know, you really do not want to know what such cables retail for, lets just say, a small house!, no, I do not have money like that, I just have worked so hard to do this system since april, 2012, not very long, I am tring to invest in a system that I can ride off into the sunset with, I am 46, I need to think about these things, If I can get a state of the art sound today, who cares what sounds better tomorrow, good sound will never become obsolete!, thats what I am betting on, If it sounds great to me and the wife, were done, untill something is broken, I am not sold on the esoteric, It is however top of my list!, Thankyou, you are a wonderful gentleman, you have done more here than most, congrats are in full order!,, Happy Listening. |
@ calvinj, Good luck my friend, I feel you are going to need all that you can recieve!, all in all, I look forward to what you have to say.,, cheers. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
Thank you for your kind words.
Below are my humble impressions of my experiences regrading the differences between Ayon CD-5s and Esoteric K-03
1. What player has the deeper more impact full bass?
Esoteric K-03. It produces more punch.
2. What player has a full bodied richer sound?
Ayon CD-5s. This is the very reason I favor CD-5s. Its
decay makes each single note so rich like melt Brie
cheese not just creamy butter.
3. What player has the deeper sound stage?
Esoteric K-03 wins marginally only.
4. What player has a bigger sound stage?
Esoteric K-03. It shows definite its superiority in this
aspect clearly.
5. What player has better focus and resolving power?
Esoteric K-03. I haven't experience any tube based
machines can surpass solid state gears in this category.
BAT's sound is very close to solid state machine but some
tube lovers claim it is too analytical.
6. What player sounds more sterile and analytical?
Esoteric K-03. On the contrary, I haven't experience any
solid state gears is not analytical when being compared
with counterpart tube based machines.
7. What player has the better mid-range, snare drums,
vocals, guitars,that are full bloom and realistic
sounding, not thin!, full and rich,with full body sound
spaces?
Ayon CD-5s. The mid-range is definite its forte. Even
Freddie Mercury's voice makes me almost in tears when
CD-5s plays Queen's songs. The sound resonance it
produces just adequate not overly exaggerated. Female
vocals are even better, sweet and touching, not piercing.
For guitar, Ayon CD-5s plays the traditional Flamenco
music's romance and passion but Esoteric K-03 reproduces
electric guitar music more faithfully. For snare drums, I use "Picture at
Exhibition" to test machines, Esoteric K-03 responses
quicker.
Above are only my limited personal experiences, people might have different opinion(s). If you do, please kindly share yours with us.
Happy Listening.
Otto
|
@ yul11375, Thats was a very good story you just posted, a great read,, Take all the time you need on getting your conclusions, I will be here,, Thankyou, I can tell you are a well seasoned audiophile!, This is a compliment to you sir, I do not consider many audiophiles in this catorgory, congrads, look forward to your post,, cheers. |
Well I have to let someone put the 6 h30 eh gold pins in. I opened the unit up today and itis not just a simple tube roll. Also the sound with these tubes could be better I'm hoping theses tubes make it less forward sounding and give sit a wider soundstage. I will report back after i put some hours on the unit with the new tubes. I tried it on the ear 868 with a levinson amp over my friends house and it was not a match. However it sounds Bette on my classe gear. Will have the tubes put in by Tuesday and will give my impressions then. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
My CD-5s is a demo one and fully broken-in so additional burn-in might not be necessary. Even fully broken-in gears I always let them run for whole night before I make any serious listening.
In terms of 6H30 tube, it is a very interesting story to me. My BAT VK D-5 is 6922 tube based and BAT was trying to promote the SE version of all their gears by replacing 6922 tubes with 6H30 tubes around Y2K. Some BAT owners considered 6H30 tube too analytic and refused to convert but new owners embraced 6H30 frantically and preferred its higher output. At that time I audited the SE version in my own system and got the same forward sounding impression as you have on Ayon CD2s.
Through all these years, I audited more 6H30 tube based gears by Audio Research and BAT mainly. To my surprise, designers collected more knowledge and experiences to "tame' this muscular tube in the past decade. However, I have to agree with you regarding the soundstage dissatisfaction of Ayon CD players, even CD5s. This early morning I experienced the insufficient soundstage as well so I changed the interconnect cable and let it run for another 6 hours. After the cable switching, the soundstage is wide and deep now, not the most impressive cases yet satisfactory.
Give me one more day, I'll update my comparison of Ayon CD5s and Esoteric K-03.
Happy Listening.
Otto |
@ calvinj, Hi, I agree with you 1,000%, As much as the ayon 2s and 5s cost, they should have the better tubes in the player!,, You may know or may not know, you will need 100 hours of burn-in on the tubes you roll into your player!, eany set!, eany tubes need atleast that many hours on any player, you may ask these gentleman If you are not sure of what I am saying is true, I will not be offended, Its always a better feeling to have more opinions, I look forward to your findings as well, please share your experience with us, thankyou calvinj, cheers. |
@ Yul1375, Hi, thankyou, you are a gentleman, I look forward to your findings and opinions, I am on my 3rd digital payer since april of 2012!,,,unless you bought a 5s used, you will need 500 hours of burn-in to come to conclusions if you bought a new unit, Happy listening. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
In order to provide my own personal expression more correctly and to avoid prejudicious judgements, I am adjusting my system by experimenting different cables and damping tweaks now. I have about 20 CDs which are considered my testing tunes. To go through all of them I need this whole weekend for a fair conclusion. Please be patience with me.
In terms of tube based CD players, I can sense your sufferings as I had 2 tube based CD players in 15 years. I am lucky enough for not having premature tubes issues.
In brief, if soundstage is your major concern then Ayon CD5s can't show its forte in that category.
Details will be provided later.
|
@ Yul11375, Hi, You have had me thinking for hours that I would like to ask your opinions, I would appreciate you thoughts and your help,,Can you elaborate more on the sound differences of the Esoteric k-03 and the Ayon 5s?,, what player has the deeper more impactfull bass?,what player has a full bodied richer sound?,what player has the deeper sound stage?, what player has a bigger sound stage?,what player has better focus and resolving power?,What player sounds more steril and analitical?,what player has the better mid-range, snare drums, vocals, guitars,that are full bloom and realistic sounding, not thin!, full and rich,with full body sound scapes?,, Likly neither player does this!, I still would like to know, I am going to search long and hard for a player to do all these attributes!, they exsist!, I had one!, and it was only $2,800.00, I got a refund on it cause we believed it was shutting my amp into stand by mode at the time, It was not the digital player!, Its gone now, It was a vincent player that bested the ayon 2s in every way imaginable!, go figure!, I want something even better than the mighty vincent player, the vincent was the most musical player i have ever heard, and thats going against players in the $20,000.00 class, so really, cost, when it comes to digital has nothing to do with it!,, cheers. |
They should have provided the dr 6h30 tubes if they are the best. I'm hoping I can tube roll into a bigger soundstage and Better. I will report back after I hear both sets of tubes in my player. I will be trying the eh 6h30 pi gold pins and the 6h30 dr reflectors |
@ Yul11375, Hi, Thats Cool!, I like the way you do things, I was a proffessional musician my self, toured all thru the states as a singer in a rock band!, I know very well what real music should sound like, I have not auditioned eany esoteric K seris players yet, I have not rulled out going to a Ayon 5s yet!, I have been thru so many problems with tube players I could scream!, The Ayon 2s sounded great when it was burning in, then it did something I have never heard or seen before, It became forward sounding!, thats not music!, the sound stage is to small!, and not deep like I demand of an audio system,, As you know, all this is system dependent!, I am bewildered as to why Ayon cut so many corners with sound differences between the 2s and 5s?, for what you pay for the 2s, It should by all means perform better than it does!, I love alot of decay like you do, I have not auditioned the 5s yet, the 2s has left a bad tast in my mouth so to speak of!, In general, I do not know if you are aware of the fact that 6h30 tubes by nature are forward sounding tubes, the only reason the 5s sounds adequete is the fact that Ayon put tubes in the power suppy, a cheap way of bettering the sound stage, more less coloring the sound, An example of what I am saying is, Put eany player on a non dedicated electrical line that shares the same circuit that the player is on, you can turn on the light and hear a big difference with the sound stage pending the music being played, Its bigger!, tubes are merly light bulbs in a since, as you can see Ayon used an entirely different type of tubes in the power suppy of the 5s for a reason!,, cheers! |
My bad. My message is for Audiolabyrinth. |
@Calvinj
I have to be careful as I am talking to a lawyer now.
The Esoteric player I audited was K-03. It was paired with Wavestream V-8 Monoblocks and Voce V-1 speakers. The sound was wonderful and truthful. There isn't any flaw in that combination. The element I prefer Ayon CD-5s is the longer sound decay length or so called "airy". Ayon CD-5s sustains the sound longer. For me thats much closer to rear-row-seated live concert experiences.
When Furtwangler was asked what element is the most critical factor of music recreation, his answer was "Sound", not tempo controlling nor phrase shaping. To me, it is the very truth of music listening as well. I ask myself to attend live performance at least once every month and listen to live piano playing every single day for at least one hour so my reference points are live music. ? Thats also the reason I use orchestras as expressions to describe my personal preference instead of words. It gives people more understanding what my desired sound should be.
Now the question is what kind of sound you favor?
Happy Listening!
Otto
|
Yull I am glad that you are pleased with the CD5s. It will only get better - many of its best attributes are very subtle and heard when you do switch back and forth between live classical concerts and great recordings. Sounds like you have excellent reference points. |
@ Yu11375, Hi, What esoteric players did you audition?, The K series is said to be some of the best available in digital!, Have you listened to a fully broken in K-01 or k-03?,, cheers! |
Hi Gammajo,
My CD-5s is a demo one so it should be already broken-in. Last night I let it run for whole night until this morning. It is such an amazing machine. I know my upgraded Resolution Audio CD-55 is not the very top performer but the additional details and the neutral sound CD-5s produces just surprise me. Resolution Audio CD-55 has very good reputation, let alone mine is a fully upgraded one. Yet Ayon CD-5s leads me into the very core of music. I audited compatible Esoteric and Burmester players but Ayon CD-5s is my personal favorite. It is just like Leipzig Gewanhaus Orchestra, natural and neutral. For my personal taste, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra is slightly sweet and Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra is marginally overtness. I have luck to listen to all 3 of them live numerous times. If you also a classical music fan, you would understand what I try to express here.
All in all, I am happy that I join this club.
Otto |
I'm not selling my ayon. It's going to the grave with me. It's a great CD player and source |
Yull135
Welcome to club and congratulations on your Cd 5s - nice piece of kit, is it not? Let us know what you think as you get some hours on it. |
@ calvinj, Hi, I am seriously thinking about going to the esoteric K-03 cd/sacd player!, It can run direct to amp!many Ayon owners that now own k-03 or k-01 players say this player is better in every way than the Ayon 5s player!no mess with tubes!,etc.., I do not believe the Ayon 2s is my cup of tea!, I really need alot better performing source than what Ayon can offer!, since I have the amplification and cables for such top digital of the world, why not hear my amp and cables best!cheers! |
