I have the CD-5 absolutey love it- what tubes do you guys recommend upgrading to thanks- also what change will i hear by doing that-
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@Fluffers, Regarding tubes, imho the mil-spec Reflektor 6H30P-DR tubes manufactured before 1991 are the best made & sounding variant of the 6H30 triode. They were designed and built for sensitive Soviet space & military applications, so they were built to much tighter tolerances & have roughly double the life of standard 6h30's. The DR's sound more dynamic, clear, and have better top and bottom extension. They are a little less 'tubey' than the EB's, so if you prefer a warmer sounding tube I would alternatively recommend cryo-treated Electro Harmonix 6h30pi gold pins from these guys - http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=327&osCsid=55a74bb6af3690e43bb526df35f00cb9 |
Fluffers. I totally agree with melbguy1 and audiolabyrinth. I am running the Reflektor 6H30P-Dr tubes from 1980 from USA Tube Audio and it was a great upgrade over stock and worth the money to me clearly. A friend also recommended over the stock tubes, the Premium gold pin version of Sovtek 6H30Pi super twin triode from PCX. I have not heard but did purchase as back up because they are very inexpensive. |
@ Gammajo,Hi,I have not run into you for a while,how have you been?,have you tried changing the fuses in the Ayon 5S?,Melbguy1 taught me that changing the fuses works great!,He recommended synerjestic research,He is out standing with his recommendations for eanything that will improve Ayon digital!cheers! |
Argol : I have the same problem with my Ayon CD5, ground loop with noise in the speakers..I have had Two differents Thresholds amplifiers (SA3.9e and then SA/6) and I sold them thinking they were not compatible with my system. It turns out that the amps worked perfectly and the buyers are perfectly happy with. I suspected then my preamp (Joule Electra), but after testing on an other system, this preamp is dead silent..So..The guilty one is the CD5. Two days ago I had a strange bug : everything was dead silent, when I pushed "play" on the CD5 I had immediately gound noise in the speakers, pushing "stop" and the noise was gone..I did it several times and always the same. I was with XLR cables and checked the cables, the pins (1,2,3), everything was normal...So I switched to RCAs and everything was OK again. There's something not totally clear with the Ayon CD5 and its compatibility with other gears. I'm very sad to have sold these collectors Thresholds as they turn out to work perfectly, but not with the Ayon. I'll receive soon new power amps (a pair of GamuT M200MKIII - also collectros amps), but this time if there's something wrong, they will stay at home and the CD5 will leave. |
@ Melkior, yes,the compatibility issue, you have to be careful of the impedence matching with Ayon, if you read past post in this thread, you can better understand this,or call u.s.a. tubes, they are good about helping people with their Ayon gear, whatever you use with Ayon, you have to have 50 koms impedence on your amps or better or you will run into this issue, other than that,I would look into your tubes age, and see if any of them may be going out,check the tubes and see if they are working properaly, your player has 8 tubes inside of it, 4 for the output and 4 in the power supply. cheers! |
Thanks again :-) Unfortunately as an old owner of Ayon CD5 I was absolutely not aware of this as I found nothing concerning this issue when I bought the unit..So I bought power amps without checking the impedance value. Anyway I know now how to handle this. I've found an incredible volume control / preamp, totally transparent which at the same time solve the impedance matching problem, for a ridiculous price (350 euros), it's a SPL Volume 2 : http://spl.info/produkte/monitor-controller/volume2/beschreibung.html So in case of noise or too low impedance I just need to put it between the Ayon and the power amps (full XLR)and everything becomes silent, no need anymore to disconnect the ground of the monos power chord. I Have exchanged the original tube for 6H30-DR, but as suggested I'll put the original ones to check if there's a problem or not (not so hard to find 6H30-DR but real matched pair is an other world). |
Hello :-) Before the CD5 I had the CD1 (great unit also), both took something like 150-200 hours to open really. Maybe they go on improving after this time but I found that most of the improvements are achieved after 200 hours. The CD5 has Mundorf Supreme Silver oil which are said to need around 200 hours to break in. 300 to 600 hours seems quite a lot, typically the break-in time for some exotic caps but not the Mundorf Supreme. I guess it depends how fast the capacitors charges and discharges and the number of cycles, according to the kind of music you play. |
@ Melkior,, Man-o-man this player opened up on the vocals yesterday, very impressive!, I did not know these 6h30 tubes would sound like the 12ax7 tubes on vocals!, maybe its the player!, who knows, right?, the 6h30 tubes are suppose to not sound like that on vocals?,, LOL!, whatever,right?,, Hey, I believe I will take the plunge with the 1980 6h30p-DR tubes, them damn tubes are crazy exspensive,,, $275.00 U.S.D.!,, A piece, wow!,, I do not know what you have for an I/c? but dude!, this Taralabs zero gold I/C is kicking a-- and taking names latter, very finnese!,, the tube up-grade may take 2 months, I just dropped $9,515.00 in the system!, need to recover from that,LOL!,, I have no answers for the remote deal, sorry on that, thankyou for the above info,that helped knowing!, I enjoy talking to you here, keep it coming my friend! Happy Listening! |
Hello Audiolabyrinth :-) Yes, quite surprising to have a so good midrange with 6H30 ! Believe me, when coupled to 845 tubes power amps, it's just incredible ! For my interconnects I have pure silver cables for digital cables (from http://artisansilvercables.com/what.htm ) Impressive cables, same level as Wireworld Platinium but much much cheaper (I have an USB + AES/EBU). I/C between Ayon CD5 and power amps are Sommercables Galileo 238+, very cheap cable or Mogami 2549, very cheap also, but they do their job :-) This is something I should upgrade, but no idea at the moment. My monos are located closed to the speakers so I would need 1,8m I/C each side. High end cables for this length will be very expensive. Any suggestion is of course welcome :-) I use the Ayon CD5 directly coupled to Cary CAD 211 AE 845 monos or GamuT M200 MK3 solid states monos. I also use a Mac Book Pro with Pure Music or Audirvana as players with an Alpha USB from Bekerley to convert USB to AES/EBU. All this ends up in the AES input of the Ayon and later flows out of the speakers like hell :-) |
@ Melkior,, wow!, you have alot going on there!,, I just persuaded 3 members to go Taralabs cables, they spent money on the used market here and bought new,, They absolutly love these cables and had no regrets!,One of my member friends is waiting on a 5-meter run of the Taralabs 0.8EX I/C to run from pre to mono amps, He put a meter balanced from analog pre-amp to pre-amp and was astonished!,,, depends on what you are willing to spend, I know the Tara house sound very well, so I believe I can give compentent recommendations for that cable brand,,you may want to buy used to get your feel of the sound first,, But I warn you,once you do that, you will want more with no resavations!,, cheers! |
Hello :-) The GamuT M200 MK3 monos arrived this week, they are directly connected to the CD5 with RCAs, and no ground noise at all, even if their imput impedance is 40 KOhms, no tried yet the XLR input (only 20 KOhms) but I'll do it soon. At the begining I found the sound too powefull at low volume, but after checking the amps gain, it was set up on 35 db, so I set it down to 23 db (internal switch) and everything came back to normal. The CD5 works on the 4V outup gain and I use the volume between -40 to - 20 ( around 1,5V to 3V) it's perfect. I'll have a glance to Tara Labs cables, thanks for the info :-) |
I bought the 6H30-DR three years ago, sincerely I don't know which year they have been produced, but I can check in the player if some figures are still written on them. Anyway I have to open the unit to put some Reflector 6C4P I should receive soon. If I remember I bought them to "thetubestore", they had a few ones in stock at this time, price was 160$ per tube. I put them in the player one year ago only. Bad news for the XLR input of my power amps with the CD5 = strong ground noise. RCA are OK so I'm saved :-) |
@ Melkior,, your 6h30p-Dr tubes might be 1986 tubes, Here in the U.S. The 6h30p-Dr 1980 tubes are $275.00 a piece!, Thats what I am going to buy!, Said to me The 1980 tubes were better in every way!, LOL!, For that kind of money they best work miracles, Right?,, I have a question, Does new tubes have to break-in?, and if so, was it as long as the player had to?, I hated going thru all this break-in period!, cheers! |
@ Melkior,, Yes, The ole hum!, You have to use shielded cable for the xlr on the Ayon digital players or this will happen to the sound, I have no issues like that,my cable is shielded and has a ground to chassis to the Ayon!,, what was the difference in sound to you with the 6h30p-Dr tubes compaired to the stock 6h30BE tubes?,, cheers! |
Hello :-) Sorry, too much work this week ! You know the price for 6H30DR 3 years ago was much lower than today, but I'll check soon when I receive the 6C4P and open the Ayon :-) The DR version has a little more of everything, that's the way I would describe this tube, compared to stock 6H30, it's not a complete change (which would be surprising) but just an improvement. With some resolving systems and speakers, this becomes more obvious, lower details rise from the background and the shape of sounds is more defined with better dynamics. Tubes to my experience (at least for preamp tubes) are OK after 50 to 100 hours, they can improve a little more untill 200 hours. Unfortunately even with shielded cables I have problems with XLR connection, whatever is the input impedance of the amp. So I use RCAs, it's OK, if necessary I can use the small SPL Volume2 as XLR preamp/volume control, it solves the bug (which is surprising also). |
@ Melkior, I am glad you affixed your issue with the Ayon,,, sounds like I will get a better bang for the buck with a $5,000.00 a/c power cord than the tube up-grade!,right now, the player sounds like its coming into its own with break-in, If you were here, you would shake your head and say I need nothing!, The Taralabs zero gold and omega gold has put this player at a level of performance that I do not believe it was designed for!, stunning!,, cheers! |
@ Bopper, Hi,flip the toggle switch on back of player from direct to amp to nomal, then use your supplied remote and mash the vol select button and go from volume to fixed volume, this will set the player to full signal for use with a pre-amp, then you experiment with the gain toggle switch on back of player from low gain to high gain, to see what best matches the pre-amp you are useing,to be able to hear what the best match would be is to turn the volune very loud on the pre-amp with the gain on back of your ayon on high gain, if the sound is not clear, then switch the gain back to low gain for a better sound, this varys with different pre-amps,,, cheers! |
Quite cheap for a 6H30DR quad ! If you can afford I think you will be granted for your investment :-) I don't know how long you have been living with the Ayon, but to enjoy better the DR tubes benefit, you should maybe live enough time with the original tubes in order to have your ears used to its sound, and be sure everything is broken in. Then you switch to DR tubes and listen to several pieces of music you think you know by heart. Then see what happen.. :-) If you hear things you did not noticed previously or if something surprise you, a detail in the background, a voice more sensual, you're on the right way ! When I bought my DR's I wait several months before switching (Ok I was a bit lazy..) and then I appreciate them a lot. If you starts with, you'll never know where they are better. |
@ melkior,, I will take your advice, I have close to 300 hrs of burn-in time now with the new Ayon 2s, It sounds to me like the unit may need 400 hrs to do the trick,,running the player direct to amp like I do, the player is not running full signal, the tubes do not get as hot, so to radify this, I will be turning the amp off and play the Ayon at full volume-signal to get the tubes as hot as they can get to help the burn-in process,, I will take the time, as you said, to get to know the player, then change out the stock tubes,, let me know what year of the 6h30p-Dr tubes you have?,, Thankyou, always a joy to talk to you!, cheers! |
Hello Audiolabyrinth :-) I was not aware that 6H30 DR could sound as 12AX7 or 12AU7 when I bought the Ayon. I had a small stock of NOS 12AX7 and 12AU7 in the past, and was pleased to play with them. According to my experience I would say 6H30 are better for soundstage and micro dynamics, but not so much for sound, I think they are more neutral. But when very well optimized like in the Ayon, yes it looks like other NOS preamp tubes :-) I received at last my Russian 6C4P, so I could open the Ayon to replace the chineese ones. I Checked on the 6H30 DR tubes and found 9106 and 9107, so I guess they are from 1991. I think the production stopped in 1992-93 and started again in 1999 but not with the same quality. I found strange that only the date is written in black when other inscriptions are white on the tube. They are real 6H30-DR but sincerely I'm suspicious about the date. Anyway they sound fine :-) |
@ Melkior,, Congrats on your new tubes for the power suppy of the Ayon cd-5, The 6c4p are the tubes to have for the stock replacement, you should enjoy the up-grade!,, There is a big cost difference and sound difference between the 1991 6h30 tubes and the 1986 6h30 tubes!, what I meant about the sound that Ayon does with 6h30 tubes versus the 12ax7 and 12au7 tubes, Is how good the sound fleshes out and blooms the same as those other tubes I just mentioned, to me thats unusual!, I have not heard that happen in other players that uses the 6h30 tubes!, Ayon is doing something special for the sound of these 6h30 tubes!,, cheers! |
Hello :-) Well I did not expect to improve anything with the Reflector 6C4P, as I bought them more to have some spare tubes, but I must say I've been surprised, the CD5 obviously sounds better with them. I say "obviously" because for me it was not an upgrade to improve anything, just to put new tubes, so when I switched on the Ayon and push "play", I was not paying attention to the sound. But after a few seconds I just realized that it was not as usual, something was better, so I spent more time listening and yes it's clearly better. Now I can't say if it's because previous tubes were too old or if the Reflectors ones are better but sound is more defined and clear. |
@ Melkior, Thats some awsome info!, The 6c4p tubes are better than the stock tubes!, I have heard this response many times that going to the 6c4p tubes result in a better sound!, congrats!,, I have a question for you!, to me the 2s sounds a little foward sounding!, Does you player have that atribute?, cheers! |
@Audiolabyrinth The CD5 is absolutely not forward sounding, excepted when 24/192 KHz mode is switched on (I really don't like this set up!). A friend of mine bought the CD1S recently and complained about the same. So he went for the CD3S and everything came back to normal. In the past I had one of the first CD1, and it sounded gread, no forward sounding. I have tubes power amps and Solid states power amps at home and clearly the solid states (Gamut M200 MK3) sound more laid back when the tube ones (Cary CAD 211) sound more forward. So maybe it's a question of association. |
We like the player the way it sounds on 24/192, it is a little foward, on the redbook setup,its not foward, but sounds terrible to us, since we are accustomed to high resolution!, I believe I may be able to tune this out!, with resonance tunning!, not isolation!, tunning like a guitar!, I had to do that work on my last tube player!, hey, do you know of a solid state all in one player that can be direct connected to an amp that sounds world class good?, cheers! |
@ Melkior, Do you have a forward sound on the 24/192 setting?, If so, you can tune that crap out!, I will attempt to do so my self!, If I can not be successful, I am done with Ayon!, unless, The 5s player has none of these attributes on 24/192!, It is A different animal of a player than what you have!, cheers! |
I just got the ayon cd2s. I loved it on the regular settings. I did not like it using the up sampling feature. It is a world class player at the price point or for that matter period. It is smooth. It has great detail. It has no digital glare. It has emotion. It has great separation and soundstage. Sounds like real music. It is not fatiguing. I paired it with a cp-800 and clarus crimson cables and was blown completely away. I am in a very happy audio place now thanks to the ayon cd2s. |
Here's a tutorial video for the CD5S on how to properly remove the top to access tubes and such. More companies should have this, if you're handy, it could save a lot of headaches and shipping costs down the road. |
@ Rx8man, LOL!, You must be hinting to me to go ahead to the nos 1986 p-Dr 6h30 tubes!, I bet that would kill eany forward sound on 24/192 setting!, what do you think Rx8man?, Really, In all reality, I believe I will buy some tunning footers and tune the crap sound out of the unit!, If I cannot, Its gone!,Maybe I need to look at a trL dude pre-amp!, cheers! |
@ calvinj, I agree!, The Ayon2s is worth the asking price for sure, I suppose the 24/192 setting would depend on the rest of the equipment being used!,We have 428 hours on our player,24/192!, LOL!, 2 hours of burn-in on the Red book setting!, To us, unless I need playing time on the Red book setting, The 24/192 sounds more smooth and natural!, Go figure, LOL!, The problem is that the 24/192 is a little forward sounding, I believe I can tune that out with resonance control underneath the player!, I would like to continue our conversation here, since you are the first 2s owner I have talked to, cheers! |
@Hello Audiolabyrinth :-) Everything is Ok with the CD5 :-) I'm still not happy with the XLR output which causes ground noise, even with high input impedance amps, I'm quite sure there's something wrong with these outputs (like if the ground was not connected). But now I use the small SPL Volume2 as a volume control through XLR and it's works perfectly between CD5 and power amps. I've installed on my MacBook Pro the plugin IK ARC2 to correct the acoustic of my room, it works quite well even if it's something light, I realized that the sound was quite a bit laid back because of my room, now it's just in front of the speakers, just perfect. So I wonder if I'm not going to something more powerfull in terms of settings, a dbx for instance. |
@ calvinj, I would recommend a pair of Taralabs Air 1 Ex if you are buying new, If you are buying used, The Air1 series2 cables, they are warm and revealing at the same time!, I recommended the used ones to two members and they love them, their member names are Waxwaves and Grey9hound, you can e-mail them or get on the thread, The one versus the 0.8 forum, you are most welcome to join our discussions we have daily!, BTW, pops and jmcgrogan2 are two othe members that bought into Taralabs and like them as well after consulting with me, cheers! |