@ Gammajo, Hi, Man, I really need to hear that from you, I am totally up-set here!, These players cost alot of money, And to tell you the truth, It took months for me to pay mine off with a lay-away!, Gammojo, this is my 3rd player in 14 months, are you saying usa tubes fixed your unit, a year later, you had another issue?, then they sent you another unit?, Steve at a company called, the service department home, that I have talked on the phone in general, is the owner and technician of his company,He is also a certiefied service for Ayon!, He said I should not pay shipping either way period!, really I am not!, He used to be the service manager at Krell for 20 years!, He also said he doubted that usa tubes will send me another unit period!,,, Gammajo, thats funny you said it may be the tubes on the right channel, the first thing the wife said when she saw the flash of light and pop sound with me, she said, thats the tubes! I will keep you and calvinj posted!, lets hope your theory is what it is!, regardless, the player has to leave my home to be fixed! |
Arg ! Sorry Audiolabyrinth for what happened :-( Hope you have solved the problem, certainly a tube, check at least the fuses if one of them has blown.
I also had a problem with my CD5 : one PCM1704 chip failed, but it has been repaired by Ayon in Austria, quickly and weel done. 6H30DR still work very well.
I still have to use the SPL Volume2 to get a dead silent XLR connection (even if my amps have a 100 KOhms input I have lot of ground noise without the SPL).
Please keep us informed :-) |
@ calvinj, come on man, this is not the time for you to say things like you did! I like you! lets keep that going! |
@ Melkior, Hi my friend!, long time since you come out!, I finally talked to usa tubes, they have said the same thing as you and Gammojo did that most likly is the problem!, the tubes and fuses!, however, I have to pay for shipping to them, and in turn they will pay for shipping back by air!,Paul said that useing rca or xlr most likly had eanything to do with it!, He thinks as Gammojo does, bad tubes from the factory!, we will see!, Paul is one of the usa, tube employees, which is ayon audio usa, the distributors for the united states!, they said, if they find a major issue, and the factory needs to know of a reliabilty issue, then they will send me a new unit!, paul said that is highly unlikly to be anything major!, Melkior, I always used this unit by xlr, worked fine, when I went to use it on a solid state reciever on rca there was no sound at all from the right channel!, the left channel played!, then pow!, and a small flash of light where the tubes are on the right channel!, then no sound at all, but the player was still powered on!, I quikly turned it off, and unplugged it!, I am lost for words! |
Audiol I know it is frustrating but I think they will make it good as soon as they can. I did pay ship there and they paid ship back. To be clear about a year into my first player there was clatter and difficulty in reading CD's. They attempted repair and then when that did not work (a whole batch of Philips Transports was bad - first time that happened), they sent me new unit free, saying that Ayon's policy was that if they did not fix it the first time, you got a new unit.
I have had tubed equipment for many years and in any brand of equipment tubes of any brand can go, but failure is most likely to occur if it is going to occur in the first couple hundred hours of use which what they call infant tube failure. There is no way to detect beforehand. This is one reason that I stick with tubes in the preamp which are under less stress than in tubed amps. Other good news is that after one year of nearly daily use in my first unit the tubes tested as new which speaks to Ayon's circuits being very gentle on tubes and that tubes in the unit should last a very long time if they make it through infancy. Hope this helps |
Didnt mean anything about it calm down usa tube audio is a good company and ayon will take care of you. Heard that they stand behind thier stuff. |
@ Gammajo, Thankyou so much!, You are an awsome asset to me!, It defiantly Helped!I really did not know much about tubes other than what a few types sound like, this is my second tube player, and the first was the best sounding to me, but it had tube problems, It was bleeding d/c into my solid state amp, threw that into standby mode!, I had to get a refund on that vincent top tier player, That player had a very musical sound, it used 3-12ax7 tubes and 1-12au7 tube, and the player was truely balanced!, Gammajo,The Ayon 2s player I own was at 435 hours of use!, and then this malfuction! what did you use to test tubes?, I need to buy that!, you had a very good reson to get another unit for free!, LOL!, they really did not have a choice!, The infant tube failure sounds to u.s.a. tubes is what happened, they want the unit to make sure they can go thru the whole unit for problems else where!Thankyou, you and Melkior know what you are talking about very well, The both of you have brought me some peace! cheers! |
I know when equipment goes bad it is frustrating at the prices we pay. We expect that they back thier products. That's why we pay the high premium
To get the best. I am going to order the eh 6h30 gold pins and in two weeks order the 6h30 dr. |
@ calvinj, your answer from the 0.8 thread is I am shipping the Ayon 2s back to usa tubes friday, they want the player returned to them to fix it or give me another one!, I am calm calvin!, I never had a piece to malfuction in less than 90 days before, and I never have owned a cd player this exspensive before, so when you put the two together, It is up setting for this to happen!, I do not know about where you live, but here, people already think it is ridiculas to spend this much for a cd player!, congrats on you getting some tubes, I would like to know your impresseions on the new tubes after you run 100 hours on them, then they still may get better with more hours!, 150 tops!, You are correct, usa tubes is going to give fixing my player a spinn!, thankyou calvinj, cheers! |
Audiol
I have an old B&K Model 606 Tube tester (usually available on ebay) that I like a lot but it does not test 6H30's so I had USA test my tubes for me |
@audiolabyrinth people think I am crazy. I understand. It shouldn't happen. I am a lawyer in Texas. This audio thing is crazy. But in a good way. I am thinking about getting vienna acoustics baby grands in place of my liutos. |
@ Gammajo, Hi, Thankyou for the answer, Do they make a tester that will test all tubes that is affordable?, BTW, you said in an earlier post that the warm, cheaper 6h30 tubes you bought sounded good in comparision to the 1980 nos 6h30 p-dr tubes, Is the 6h30p-dr 1980 tubes at usa tubes price of $275.00 worth the cost comparied to the 6h30 alternative tubes you bought for back-up???,, cheers! |
audio
I think I said that the cheaper tubes sounded better than I expected and are an excellent value. I have been running them for about a month and will remove them and do a comparison with the 1980's in a few weeks - will let you know result |
@ Gammajo, now you know what I am getting at!, Thankyou Gammajo, That would be awsome If you did that comparison, The price of $275.00 is a steep price for tubes!, and I wanted to make Damn sure they are that much better than the Tubes you are useing now to justify their cost!, and if they are a little better, why pay the difference?,, cheers! |
@ calvinj, A lawyer!, that explains everything, LOL!,,I still love ya man!, what are the Vienna Acoustics Baby grands going to cost you?,, BTW, given the money you make a year, why in the world do you wast time on inferrior cables?, I make less than you likly!, I own Taralabs very best cables with absolutly no regrets!, If I were you, I would sell the Ayon 2s and get the 5s player!,Tell me everything about the baby grands, and what are the differences between the two speakers that are being discussed here.,, Happy Listening! |
I am having second thoughts. I think I am going to wait and get the concert grands instead in a few weeks instead of the baby grands. I am still thinking about what I am going to do. I like them but they may not be big enough for my listening room. I have room acoustic problems to start of with so that's the thing I probably should address first. |
@gammajo. Thanks for doing the comparison. I would like to see how it turns out for you. Tubes are very important but I would like to get my money worth. |
Audio. They were rosewood in color and I needed cherry. |
@ calvinj, Ok, tell me please about these speakers!, you said, instead of the baby grands, you are shooting for the concert grands!, sounds like you are wanting to be a serious audiophile!, mind me asking, whats the concert grands going to cost you?, not that it is crazy!, look at me!, The money I spent on cables would fit the bill, I care less!, I love my sound of my cables, they give me the joy of music closest to live that I know of!,, cheers! |
@ calvinj, Where you at, you left me hanging with my last post to you!,, Happy Listening! |
@ calvinj, Ok, since you did not get back to me, I looked at vienna acoustics speakers, I do not believe you should wast your time on the concert grands or baby grands!, They are not good enough for your Ayon player!, now the model called the music, that flagship speaker of vienna acoustics may work to your benefit!, those would be best mated with some Taralabs cables!, then you would hear some tunes!The Taralabs omega edge speaker cables and zero edge interconnects and onyx power cords would fit the bill of what the model the music is capable of!, I would do piano black!, thats a nice finish!, these speakers look like focal utopia copys for sure!, that will help sound field phase alighnment of the music coming to your ears!The cables I recommended for the model, the music are smooth, extended bass and mids , treble!, a whole lot of body, a sound stage to die for!,, you get this set-up, I believe we can talk!, you would be like a kid on christmas day!, you would have a hell of alot to tell me, LOL!,,, cheers! |
Sorry I was out if town. I was looking at those the music too. Can't afford them. The concert grands would match the other things I have now but I'm probably gonna wait to get something better. Still thinking about it more. I might just keep my liutos. |
4000 to 4500 probably. My cost. |
I am not gonna chase perfection anymore. Just want to listen to music. |
@ calvinj, Hi, I hope you enjoyed your holiday!, I had a feast of a cook out!,, What does the music model speakers cost?, They looked like they were a very good speakers to me!, I understand if you do not want to spend the money!, I hate it too!, If I had your income, I would get the $75,000.00 retail JBL 67000 everest speakers and be done the rest of my life!, This is hailed as a super speaker!, One of a handfull as best available!, My dream speakers!,, no offense to nobody out there, but I call that kind of money, stupid money!, no, it does not mean you are stupid!, It means that you have the money to realize your dreams in audio, more money to know what to do with!, stupid also is in context that the asking price here for the speakers is stupid!, thus stupid money, I wished I had stupid money!,, calvinj, you will be fine with whatever you would like to spend, you have greater prioritys, I understand,,,, cheers! |
I'm keeping my liutos after all. I just tried nordost Tyr. I liked it very musical interconnect. I just got the eh 6 h 30 gold pins. Gonna tube roll by the wknd on my ayon. |
@ calvinj, Where are you? |
@ calvinj, congrats on the nordost Tyr and the EH 6h30 tubes!, Keep me posted on the sound of it all, after your tubes break in, I would put the original interconnect back in to hear what the tubes are actually doing, since you are familar with your last interconnects!, then put your new tyr interconnects in and give me sentiments of all of the sound, I look forward to hear what you have to say!,, cheers! |
Thanks. I will put them in Friday. Wish me luck !!!!!!!! |
@ calvinj, Good luck my friend! |
Hi All,
Finally I joined this club officially by receiving the CD-5S yesterday. The whole system is in Higher-Fi status now. With Ayon CD-5S as source, EDGE NL Signature 1.2s as amplification and Montana EPX as loudspeakers, I can rest for an extremely long time before any major upgrade (if any, speakers probably) and concentrate on listening to music merrily.
It is a long journey for me to reach current stage, 22 years. I started with Ariston CD1 with Marantz mini system in 1991, then move to Carver CD-490T (6922 tube based), Bryston and Tannoy combination in 1993. Not until 2001, I entered the Hi-Fi world by assembling BAT CD-5 (6922 tube based), Counterpoint SA-11 6SN7 tube based pre-amplifier, Counterpoint fully upgraded SA-100 6SN7 tube based hybrid monoblock amplifiers and Thiel 3.6 speakers. By switching BAT CD-5 with Resolution Audio CD-55 and Thiel 3.6 with Piega P-10 in 2008, I twisted the sound of my system closer to my personal taste. But I recognized then the next upgrade would be challenging and would be very close to the central realm of musical Valhalla.
Now here I am after 5-year auditing and searching. The detail story would be disclosed in another thread of my system review.
Your suggestion are always welcome.
Happy Listening! |
@ calvinj, Hi, I am seriously thinking about going to the esoteric K-03 cd/sacd player!, It can run direct to amp!many Ayon owners that now own k-03 or k-01 players say this player is better in every way than the Ayon 5s player!no mess with tubes!,etc.., I do not believe the Ayon 2s is my cup of tea!, I really need alot better performing source than what Ayon can offer!, since I have the amplification and cables for such top digital of the world, why not hear my amp and cables best!cheers! |
Yull135
Welcome to club and congratulations on your Cd 5s - nice piece of kit, is it not? Let us know what you think as you get some hours on it. |
I'm not selling my ayon. It's going to the grave with me. It's a great CD player and source |
Hi Gammajo,
My CD-5s is a demo one so it should be already broken-in. Last night I let it run for whole night until this morning. It is such an amazing machine. I know my upgraded Resolution Audio CD-55 is not the very top performer but the additional details and the neutral sound CD-5s produces just surprise me. Resolution Audio CD-55 has very good reputation, let alone mine is a fully upgraded one. Yet Ayon CD-5s leads me into the very core of music. I audited compatible Esoteric and Burmester players but Ayon CD-5s is my personal favorite. It is just like Leipzig Gewanhaus Orchestra, natural and neutral. For my personal taste, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra is slightly sweet and Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra is marginally overtness. I have luck to listen to all 3 of them live numerous times. If you also a classical music fan, you would understand what I try to express here.
All in all, I am happy that I join this club.
Otto |
@ Yu11375, Hi, What esoteric players did you audition?, The K series is said to be some of the best available in digital!, Have you listened to a fully broken in K-01 or k-03?,, cheers! |
Yull I am glad that you are pleased with the CD5s. It will only get better - many of its best attributes are very subtle and heard when you do switch back and forth between live classical concerts and great recordings. Sounds like you have excellent reference points. |
@Calvinj
I have to be careful as I am talking to a lawyer now.
The Esoteric player I audited was K-03. It was paired with Wavestream V-8 Monoblocks and Voce V-1 speakers. The sound was wonderful and truthful. There isn't any flaw in that combination. The element I prefer Ayon CD-5s is the longer sound decay length or so called "airy". Ayon CD-5s sustains the sound longer. For me thats much closer to rear-row-seated live concert experiences.
When Furtwangler was asked what element is the most critical factor of music recreation, his answer was "Sound", not tempo controlling nor phrase shaping. To me, it is the very truth of music listening as well. I ask myself to attend live performance at least once every month and listen to live piano playing every single day for at least one hour so my reference points are live music. ? Thats also the reason I use orchestras as expressions to describe my personal preference instead of words. It gives people more understanding what my desired sound should be.
Now the question is what kind of sound you favor?
Happy Listening!
Otto
|
My bad. My message is for Audiolabyrinth. |
@ Yul11375, Hi, Thats Cool!, I like the way you do things, I was a proffessional musician my self, toured all thru the states as a singer in a rock band!, I know very well what real music should sound like, I have not auditioned eany esoteric K seris players yet, I have not rulled out going to a Ayon 5s yet!, I have been thru so many problems with tube players I could scream!, The Ayon 2s sounded great when it was burning in, then it did something I have never heard or seen before, It became forward sounding!, thats not music!, the sound stage is to small!, and not deep like I demand of an audio system,, As you know, all this is system dependent!, I am bewildered as to why Ayon cut so many corners with sound differences between the 2s and 5s?, for what you pay for the 2s, It should by all means perform better than it does!, I love alot of decay like you do, I have not auditioned the 5s yet, the 2s has left a bad tast in my mouth so to speak of!, In general, I do not know if you are aware of the fact that 6h30 tubes by nature are forward sounding tubes, the only reason the 5s sounds adequete is the fact that Ayon put tubes in the power suppy, a cheap way of bettering the sound stage, more less coloring the sound, An example of what I am saying is, Put eany player on a non dedicated electrical line that shares the same circuit that the player is on, you can turn on the light and hear a big difference with the sound stage pending the music being played, Its bigger!, tubes are merly light bulbs in a since, as you can see Ayon used an entirely different type of tubes in the power suppy of the 5s for a reason!,, cheers! |
They should have provided the dr 6h30 tubes if they are the best. I'm hoping I can tube roll into a bigger soundstage and Better. I will report back after I hear both sets of tubes in my player. I will be trying the eh 6h30 pi gold pins and the 6h30 dr reflectors |
@ Yul11375, Hi, You have had me thinking for hours that I would like to ask your opinions, I would appreciate you thoughts and your help,,Can you elaborate more on the sound differences of the Esoteric k-03 and the Ayon 5s?,, what player has the deeper more impactfull bass?,what player has a full bodied richer sound?,what player has the deeper sound stage?, what player has a bigger sound stage?,what player has better focus and resolving power?,What player sounds more steril and analitical?,what player has the better mid-range, snare drums, vocals, guitars,that are full bloom and realistic sounding, not thin!, full and rich,with full body sound scapes?,, Likly neither player does this!, I still would like to know, I am going to search long and hard for a player to do all these attributes!, they exsist!, I had one!, and it was only $2,800.00, I got a refund on it cause we believed it was shutting my amp into stand by mode at the time, It was not the digital player!, Its gone now, It was a vincent player that bested the ayon 2s in every way imaginable!, go figure!, I want something even better than the mighty vincent player, the vincent was the most musical player i have ever heard, and thats going against players in the $20,000.00 class, so really, cost, when it comes to digital has nothing to do with it!,, cheers. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
In order to provide my own personal expression more correctly and to avoid prejudicious judgements, I am adjusting my system by experimenting different cables and damping tweaks now. I have about 20 CDs which are considered my testing tunes. To go through all of them I need this whole weekend for a fair conclusion. Please be patience with me.
In terms of tube based CD players, I can sense your sufferings as I had 2 tube based CD players in 15 years. I am lucky enough for not having premature tubes issues.
In brief, if soundstage is your major concern then Ayon CD5s can't show its forte in that category.
Details will be provided later.
|
@ Yul1375, Hi, thankyou, you are a gentleman, I look forward to your findings and opinions, I am on my 3rd digital payer since april of 2012!,,,unless you bought a 5s used, you will need 500 hours of burn-in to come to conclusions if you bought a new unit, Happy listening. |
@ calvinj, Hi, I agree with you 1,000%, As much as the ayon 2s and 5s cost, they should have the better tubes in the player!,, You may know or may not know, you will need 100 hours of burn-in on the tubes you roll into your player!, eany set!, eany tubes need atleast that many hours on any player, you may ask these gentleman If you are not sure of what I am saying is true, I will not be offended, Its always a better feeling to have more opinions, I look forward to your findings as well, please share your experience with us, thankyou calvinj, cheers. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
My CD-5s is a demo one and fully broken-in so additional burn-in might not be necessary. Even fully broken-in gears I always let them run for whole night before I make any serious listening.
In terms of 6H30 tube, it is a very interesting story to me. My BAT VK D-5 is 6922 tube based and BAT was trying to promote the SE version of all their gears by replacing 6922 tubes with 6H30 tubes around Y2K. Some BAT owners considered 6H30 tube too analytic and refused to convert but new owners embraced 6H30 frantically and preferred its higher output. At that time I audited the SE version in my own system and got the same forward sounding impression as you have on Ayon CD2s.
Through all these years, I audited more 6H30 tube based gears by Audio Research and BAT mainly. To my surprise, designers collected more knowledge and experiences to "tame' this muscular tube in the past decade. However, I have to agree with you regarding the soundstage dissatisfaction of Ayon CD players, even CD5s. This early morning I experienced the insufficient soundstage as well so I changed the interconnect cable and let it run for another 6 hours. After the cable switching, the soundstage is wide and deep now, not the most impressive cases yet satisfactory.
Give me one more day, I'll update my comparison of Ayon CD5s and Esoteric K-03.
Happy Listening.
Otto |
Well I have to let someone put the 6 h30 eh gold pins in. I opened the unit up today and itis not just a simple tube roll. Also the sound with these tubes could be better I'm hoping theses tubes make it less forward sounding and give sit a wider soundstage. I will report back after i put some hours on the unit with the new tubes. I tried it on the ear 868 with a levinson amp over my friends house and it was not a match. However it sounds Bette on my classe gear. Will have the tubes put in by Tuesday and will give my impressions then. |
@ yul11375, Thats was a very good story you just posted, a great read,, Take all the time you need on getting your conclusions, I will be here,, Thankyou, I can tell you are a well seasoned audiophile!, This is a compliment to you sir, I do not consider many audiophiles in this catorgory, congrads, look forward to your post,, cheers. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
Thank you for your kind words.
Below are my humble impressions of my experiences regrading the differences between Ayon CD-5s and Esoteric K-03
1. What player has the deeper more impact full bass?
Esoteric K-03. It produces more punch.
2. What player has a full bodied richer sound?
Ayon CD-5s. This is the very reason I favor CD-5s. Its
decay makes each single note so rich like melt Brie
cheese not just creamy butter.
3. What player has the deeper sound stage?
Esoteric K-03 wins marginally only.
4. What player has a bigger sound stage?
Esoteric K-03. It shows definite its superiority in this
aspect clearly.
5. What player has better focus and resolving power?
Esoteric K-03. I haven't experience any tube based
machines can surpass solid state gears in this category.
BAT's sound is very close to solid state machine but some
tube lovers claim it is too analytical.
6. What player sounds more sterile and analytical?
Esoteric K-03. On the contrary, I haven't experience any
solid state gears is not analytical when being compared
with counterpart tube based machines.
7. What player has the better mid-range, snare drums,
vocals, guitars,that are full bloom and realistic
sounding, not thin!, full and rich,with full body sound
spaces?
Ayon CD-5s. The mid-range is definite its forte. Even
Freddie Mercury's voice makes me almost in tears when
CD-5s plays Queen's songs. The sound resonance it
produces just adequate not overly exaggerated. Female
vocals are even better, sweet and touching, not piercing.
For guitar, Ayon CD-5s plays the traditional Flamenco
music's romance and passion but Esoteric K-03 reproduces
electric guitar music more faithfully. For snare drums, I use "Picture at
Exhibition" to test machines, Esoteric K-03 responses
quicker.
Above are only my limited personal experiences, people might have different opinion(s). If you do, please kindly share yours with us.
Happy Listening.
Otto
|
@ calvinj, Good luck my friend, I feel you are going to need all that you can recieve!, all in all, I look forward to what you have to say.,, cheers. |
