I live in the middle of no where/ mid-west USA,no local dealers within 100s of miles from me.I bought a NEW McIntosh amp from dealer and had it shipped to me.The dealer first asked me to verify that I had no local dealer and told me over the phone that all paperwork would be in the crate, to send in the warranty info supplied which I did..McIntosh informed me via a letter that because it was purchased over the phone and shipped to me the warranty is invalid/void..Im posting half in protest to their policies and the other half to warn potential buyers..Last time I buy McIntosh!!!!
>>>Last time I buy McIntosh!!!! Your loss! They only try to protect their dealers and if the guy you got the amp from isn't on their list.... God knows where he's got the amp from. I have only the best experiences with their service. In my MC 2000 two of the VU-meter bulbs went and a week later I had substitutes sent along with an instruction to change them.
I would first call the dealer and get their story on the matter. Second, I would call Mcintosh and try to work this out. Third, you may never need the warranty, but it is a nice piece of mind. Most of all, why bash Mcintosh for your lack of preparedness? A call before purchasing over the phone was in order. Mac is doing what a good manufacturer should, they are protecting everybody in the chain. Mac is good stuff and the customer support is top notch.
I don't think your going to find many folks here or anywhere that will bash Mcintosh for the warranty or customer service. A follow up and retraction my be in order. Best of luck.
It sounds to me like the dealer mislead you. You may have recourse to return the amp for a refund because you were misled, but the dealer is who you should take up the problem with. The good news is - it's a McIntosh. You probably will be far,far out of warranty before you ever need service. Good Luck.
Mcintosh will ONLY support product sales if you buy from an Authorized McIntosh Dealer. Their web site includes a dealer locator to find the Authorized McIntosh Dealer near you. You need to contact your dealer to determine if he is an authorized McIntosh Retailer. Based on your description, he sounds that he is not and so McIntosh refuses to provide a product warranty. Mcintosh product warranty and customer service is excellent but you have to buy Mcintosh products from an authorized McIntosh dealer. Did your dealer tell you he was an authorized Mcintosh dealer? I suggest you attempt to work these issues with your dealer.
It seems like there are several scenarios that may have occurred:
#1. The dealer is authorized by McIntosh and there is not a local dealer option for the buyer. In this case, were the trans-shipment rules violated? If not, then McIntosh needs to review their treatment of their customer. After all, he did create revenue for Mc when the dealer replenishes revenue. In other words, if no rule were violated, it's reasonable to be upset that McIntosh wasn't more diligent in assessing the situation vs. citing standard "boilerplate" response. But it also seems the dealer should intercede as well--even offering to issue a refund upon return, and then he can deal with Mc.
#2. The dealer is authorized, but there is a local dealer option for the buyer. In this case, seems to me McIntosh should punish the dealer, not solely the buyer. In this case, the dealer might have been more pro-active and done their own research to verify no local option--McIntosh does have a dealer locator on their site. But it also seems the dealer has the responsibility to know and observe the rules.
#3. The dealer isn't authorized. In this case, the buyer has to assume the responsibility for purchasing gray/black market and not conducting some due diligence.
A very good friend of mine just purchased a McIntosh amp from a dealer, but verified that dealer's authorized status, both via the website and with a call to Mc. The staff there were quite helpful, even sharing the date of manufacturer, etc. In other words, it can be done.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that the OP doesn't have all the details needed to truly assess responsibility.
Yes, purchased from authorized dealer...My letter that came in the mail from McIntosh (after my warranty info was sent in) clearly states that they dont cover warranty of any kind if a unit is not purchased over the counter at the store it was sold..No warranty if purchased over the phone and shipped,period...I did contact McIntosh and they said thats the policy,period..I love the amp but as stated they lost me as a future customer,,,period!
If your story is accurate, then that is terrible customer service. I would never support a manufacturer who is so flagrantly unsupportive.
Obviously, the Mac dealer is authorized. McIntosh does not want dealers to ship product. They are screwing customers and do not deserve to be supported.
There are many caring, supportive manufactureres. They are who we should invest in.
I do not understand this policy. Since there was no authorized McIntosh dealers in your area, you purchased an amplifier from an authorized McIntosh dealer expecting a full warranty. If this sale is against McIntosh policy, the dealer should be responsible (he sold it to you) and not the purchaser. It is my opinion that McIntosh should provide full warranty for this unit. I emailed someone I know at Mcintosh and asked him for his opinion. I will post his response when I get it.
Here is my take...You bought it from a Mcintosh authorized dealer...you get the warranty.
I am in the car bus and have been to court, there isnt a judge in the world who is going to let the consumer,who acted in good faith.left holding the bag, Mac can say whatever they want on their website, it doesn't matter.
I am a BIG Mac fan, and I understand their policy,BUT, in my opinion, they are swimming in the wrong pond by trying to "disclaim" the warranty based on HOW you got the product. Nor can any Manufacturer disclaim the warranty based on what price you paid for the product.
Nor can any manufacturer shut off a retailer for discounting....hence..MSRP...Manufacturer SUGGESTED RETAIL price.
Think about it, you are travelling and stop in a Mac shop and buy a product,take it home, send in the warranty card,you get the warranty, you pick up the phone and order it over the phone....no warranty ???
What if you are disabled and cant physically make it to the shop,still no warranty ??
Like I said, I love Mac and support their dealer and products, but in my humble opinion, they really need to redo their policy.
I am not a lawyer, but if push came to shove, and consumer went to court over this.....it is a no brainer, the consumer would get the warranty, bet the farm on it.
From the perspective of a dealer (though not of Mac), I understand their policy. They want and expect their dealers to sell face to face, not by mail order, not over the Internet. Quite a few manufacturers and distributors have this rule and in fact forbid their dealers from advertising on the Internet and on certain websites (ahem).
In this case the dealer violated the understanding with the manufacturer, possibly backed by a written agreement, by selling over the phone, effectively mail order. In any event what he did was unethical.
Presumably the customer was not informed of the manufacturer's policy about warranty coverage prior to the sale, so presumably the purchase was made in good faith, but it can't be proven. Meanwhile the manufacturer's policy is clear. So in this case I'd say the customer is out of luck, no thanks to the shady dealer who made the sale and didn't keep up his end of the bargain. The manufacturer chooses to stick to their policy in order to thwart such sales from occurring.
Maybe McIntosh should honor the warranty but demand payment from the dealer of a certain percentage of the cost of the component. It would be an expensive lesson to the dealer. If the dealer refuses or delays payment he should lose the line.
I hate to jump on the bandwagon becuase I feel your anger and disappointment, but Mcintosh is not the culprit here. This is a common policy of many high end companies that want to rightfully protect their dealers. Sometimes even if the dealer is authorized to sell the gear, he is not supposed to cross over into another dealers territory. Other companies will allow their dealers to sell the gear from a store only, but not over the internet! It sounds to me like you purchased your Mac from an unauthorized dealer or maybe it's grey market. I hope he gave you a good price!! You probably will never need the warranty anyway because it is so well made.
I am guessing that your dealer did not have this in his store and placed the order with Mcintosh and had it shipped to you direct, otherwise, how would Macitosh know that you didn't just drive to the dealer and put the unit in your trunk? After reading Superhonestben's post, I have to agree that you should be entitled to the warranty unless the dealer is not authorized. Good Luck!
Missioncoonery, I was reading this and feel for you and if what you have said is 100% accurate then Mac needs to give their head a shake along with getting their head out of the sand and wake up already.
If I was you I would write a letter to the president of Mac with what is going on and don't give in, this is absolutely absurd.
Make sure you put everything in writing so it is not hearsay so no one can say I didn't say that, you just never know.
What is your dealer doing for you regarding this matter?
This should be a concern and a RED FLAG for all dealers out there who deal with Mac and be a wake up call.
Here is the warranty statement buried inside Mac's website. Beware whenever someone tells you that their policy is for your own protection...
For the Consumer's Protection In order to ensure the highest level of customer satisfaction, "new" McIntosh products may only be purchased over-the-counter or delivered and installed by an Authorized McIntosh Dealer.
McIntosh products that are purchased over the Internet, by phone or mail order are presumed to be "used" and do not qualify for any McIntosh Warranty. McIntosh does not warrant, in any way, products that are purchased from anyone who is not an Authorized Dealer or products that have had their serial number altered or defaced.
Going to court is not likely to be a practical or cost effective solution. If the amount is above the "small claim" threshold for the State where the suit would be filed, a lawyer would likely have to be paid. Also, the courts in the OP's own State probably don't have jurisdiction, assuming McIntosh does not have a substantial business presence there. At best, there would be considerable time, trouble, and probably expense involved.
I agree, based on the warranty statement that Dgarretson quoted, that McIntosh's policy is outrageous, and I agree with the suggestions of trying to return the unit to the dealer, as well as complaining to Mc's president and their corporate parent (D&M Holdings, I believe).
I agree also, based on the warranty statement that Dgarretson quoted, that McIntosh's policy is outrageous.
You are not in the wrong here but have been put into a very awkward situation which is totally wrong, obviously the dealer is the one wronge here so in essence it's his problem.
As I mentioned earlier I would be sending a letter to Mac's president and their corporate parent who ever it is, if it is (D&M Holdings)with your complaint.
Some members are suggesting legal, don't waste your time going down this road unless you have lots and lots of time on your hands, life is just too short and it will just go on and on and in the end the justice system is by far perfect and you may not prevail, not worth it.
Just put pressure on the Manufacture and Dealer in question.
As Cyclonicman mentions, "How does Mcintosh know the buyer didn't walk into the store, and buy over the counter?"
With that being said, and since McIntosh supposedly doesn't ship goods to private end users, only thier dealer network, then how, and where did this particular Unit come from?
This is almost like saying, that while I was on vacation in another state, I decide to buy a pair of MC-501 Amps, drive home, send in Warrantee Card, then find I have no Warrantee because I could have bought it from a closer dealer in my own home state?
This policy is the same for many manufacturers. It is nothing new and Mcintosh is backing it's writen word. There are no "red flags" going up. Mac dealers are well aware of what they are doing. Why would you write to the president of Mcintosh instead of offering the advice to call the dealer first. This is typical lack of accountablity of the American public, its always someones elses fault and someone is always wanting to "take it to the top" to get a resolution. He needs to accept responsibility for his mistake, quite pinning on forums like this and solve the issue with Mac and the dealer. People like you need to quite egging people like this on. This forum should be utilized as a last resort, not as a way to take a jab at a reputable manufacturer such as Mcintosh, for honoring what is clearly written on it's web site. This guy could have made a call or atleast looked at the website and made an informed decision. Now Mac must bear the brunt and be made to look like they are the bad guys. If you want to make cast dispersions and make accusitory statements, then why not stand up against the big 3 auto makers, no that is a load of s**t.
I agree with the above comment, also how far is too far. I live in the Northeast, you can drive through 5 states in less than 2 hours. If you buy a mac amp in mass, and live in Rhode Island, do you not get the warranty because it is a different state, could be 20 minutes away.
In the 70s manufacturers used to have a policy about pricing, that did go to court and was quickly overturned.
again, how in the world does a manufacturer know how you bought it,drive by or ups,to that end this kind of policy makes no sense to me.
You can buy Mac gear from any dealer - local or not, it simply doesn't matter. What does matter, however, is that you must pick it up or the dealer must deliver it; no shipping as per the Mac warranty policy.
Now, obviously, only you and the dealer know whether the item has been shipped, picked up, or delivered. Mac doesn't have spies out there.
In this case, the OP got screwed because SOMEBODY told Mac the unit was shipped. I buy Mac stuff from dealers half way across the country all the time. They ship it and I fill in the warranty card and no problem. But I have a receipt from an authorized dealer and as far as anyone knows, I picked the stuff up while on vacation.
You probably won't have any issues with the performance of a Mac unit. I had a 7270 amp for 18 years, sold it, and heard from the buyer that it still runs strong. McIntosh used to put (maybe still do) the name (s) of the inspectors and the builders on the circuit boards, so they know who was in charge of quality control. Sorry to read about your situation, but you should just kick back and enjoy the music. Too bad companies protect their dealers, to protect the all important RETAIL price. Again, the unit you bought should last a very long time. Good luck to you.
I did a dealer search for a short radius around my zip code(not in a metro area) and was surprised how overdistributed Mac is, even into some very small retailers of scant significance to the market. I would venture to say that Mac might have the largest dealer network in high end audio. Mac goes as far as to award dealers with several levels of status, probably based upon stocking levels and volume. Their warranty policy is obviously crafted to minimize competition among dealers & probably violates interstate commerce rules as well as consumer protection regulations.
Nicely written Big5! Mac is not protecting their dealers per say, they are protecting themselves and their consumers. You can a buy a Mac piece out of state as long as you pay for it over the counter or have it installed. I think people here are not reading the posts fully or are only reading what they want to see. We all love to see people and companies stumble. Especially Mac, they have been around for a long time and are the envy of many other companies and the target of many audiophiles for whatever reason..................? As they say, "Ignoranace is no excuse".
Bigbucks5, If the unit is shipped across state lines & original receipt is necessary to obtain Warranty service, then the lack of sales tax on the receipt would reveal a violation of stated terms.
As one who has managed a large dealer channel in another industry, IMO Mac's policy betrays a failure or unwillingness to enforce policy through its dealer network. A dealer might justifiably be held to account for such policy, but it's another thing altogether to pit the consumer against the dealer on this point.
My final thoughts...As stated the nearest audio store to me is 3 hours drive one way(and they DONT sell McIntosh).My goal was not to complain really but to warn or advise potential Mac buyers not purchase any Mac product like I did over the phone.The last new amp I purchased was Pass labs, bought the same way over the phone and shipped .Pass labs covered an issue I had with the amp no questions asked.They gave me the full 3 year warranty which is what they offer.All of use are not fortunate enough to have highend audio at arms lenght,one down side of living in Mayberry USA..I could of simple bought a used amp on this site if warranty wasnt an issue,but it was..I do love this amp and knock on wood I wont have any issues..but it still sucks never the less...
"many" is the key word and not all and first of all I'm not egging him on as you put it and your comments made directly to me which only demonstrate the type of individual you really are suggesting this.
I will say what ever I please so don't tell me different, who do you think you are.
Get your facts straight prior to babbling away, maybe start off with a reading lesson. Read responses, I said contact your Dealer it's his problem and not yours, contact the Manufacture and explain your situation.
As far as I'm concerned it's the Dealers error and Missioncoonery did say he bought it from a authorized dealer, can you read. He should not have to start doing this and that, he should have confidence in dealing with this company.
Are you directly associated with the dealer in question who seems to have screwed him, putting him into this situation.
I have warranty policies stated for the products I sell in my profession. My business model allows for exceptions. Inflexability on the part of McIntosh to allow for exceptions is poor customer service.
You will likely not need to use the warranty, but their refusal to even issue one still sucks.
I would put this issue over to the McIntosh-forum of audiokarma. That's where the real McIntosh-addicts hang out, that's what McIntosh product manager Ron Cornelius reads every day, that's where I put a contentious warranty issue a few years ago, and where, after having laid out all the details, Ron Cornelius brought his influence on the service department to solve the issue - but only after most Audiokarma-visitors agreed with me and the case began to damage McIntosh's reputation.
In short, the problem was that I bought a MA6500 in Moscow, and the warranty papers in the box said "3 years warranty". The dealer, who was McIntosh's official Russia distributor, told me there would be 3 years warranty. But when a defect arose, he told me warranty in Russia was one year only. In one word, he lied to me.
I thought McIntosh was obliged to enforce them to honour what they had told me. McIntosh said in the beginning that any distributor was free to fix his own time of warranty, and that the 3-year-warranty was valid in the US only.
When I asked them why they then included the paper stating the 3-year-warranty with all foreign shipments, I got no answer. As I say, McIntosh acted only - forcing the distributor to repair the amp for free - when the clear majority agreed with me on audiokarma, having presented all the facts.
If there is not dealer in your area, if you indeed sold from an authorized McIntosh dealer, if he did not tell you you would void the warranty by having it shipped, I agree the dealer, but in this case McIntosh, too, has the obligation to cover the warranty. Regards, Florian Hassel
My 2 cents FWTW. This would make an interesting business school case. I think Missoncoonery has a legitimate beef. He bought a product from an authorized dealer but got less than the full product he paid for given that a legitmate definition of product includes "goods" + "services" (warranty effectively being a claim on future service). Why is a dealer "authorized" in the first place? Isn't it because the mftr. has determined they meet some basic standards and will be a good outlet for their product (e.g., protect price and provide a good venue for display of their product??). Secondly, what's that dealer "authorized" to do if not act as the mftr's. representative? I think the dealer was wrong not to disclose that shipping would void the warranty; but if Mac identified him as their authorized representative, it would seem to me any individual dealing with that dealer would have reasonable expectations that representations made by that dealer were consistent with mftr. policy. I think Mac should stand behind their product and their chosen representative's (tacit) representation of what he was selling.
Anyone that spends time on this website has the information in front of them for Warranty information from manufacturers listed. Most, if not all have their warranty info on their own website. Mcintosh has taken care of my warranty issues pronto.
No, I have no affiliation with the dealer in question. I don't even know who we are talking about. But I do know the manufacturer and feel they are reputable and trust worthy. I don't like it when someone casts a sidelong glance at a company based on untrue information. As stated above, Mcintosh's policy states that a buyer must pay for the product at the retailer. If the dealer mislead whether intentionally or by accident, it is not Mcintosh's fault. Would it be pretty darn cool if Mac stepped up and made things right? Yeh, you bet. But taking your beef to a forum such as this and making the statement that you are through with a company based on this issue is being shortsighted and irrational.
Stubby,
No, no springs broken here. Just protecting a company that has treated me right. I would hope you would do the same, it's called loyalty. I know, I know, what a thing to say in this day and age.
As for the big 3, I felt that efforts to get a company to do what is right might be better directed toward them and the umpteen billion, with a "B" dollars that we Americans are gonna fork up to "bail them out" Yet again. *SIGH*. My bad for staying up on current events. I guess this is not the thread to do that with. My apologies.
I suggest you call McIntosh and review the facts of your purchase with them. McIntosh customer service is excellent and their policy of having to purchase McIntosh products over-the-counter or delivered and installed by an Authorized McIntosh Dealer has been in effect since day one. McIntosh products that are purchased over the Internet, by phone or mail order are presumed to be "used" and do not qualify for any McIntosh Warranty. The items you need to review with McIntosh are 1) How far are you from an authorized McIntosh dealer (exact number of miles)? 2) Is the dealer you purchased the unit from an authorized dealer and was this fact confirmed by McIntosh? 3) Did this particular dealer have a current McIntosh franchise when the unit was purchased? I am very confident that McIntosh will be happy to answer these questions and get the problem resolved.
you said "I don't like it when someone casts a sidelong glance at a company based on untrue information."
and
"But taking your beef to a forum such as this and making the statement that you are through with a company based on this issue is being shortsighted and irrational."
You really need to pay attention when you are reading prior to just throwing around accusations as such, just as your "big 3" comments. Who cares! and I don't agree with you.
I think it's pretty bad that Missioncoonery is having to deal with this.
I was chatting with someone today about this and it was recommended you should go a little further up the chain of command than just talking to someone in customer service. They will be nice but in essence will still have to speak to their boss so why wast your time and energy explaining a couple of times, let us know what the end results are.
There still seems to be little known about source of the cause of this unhappy set of circumstances, as to "who dunnit?"
Was it the dealer who inadvertly made mention to the company? Or perhaps did the original poster send copy of the bill to McIntosh, (is this required by McIntosh?) thus "spilling the beans", and then McIntosh clearly saw that this wasn't an over the counter purchase? (No State Tax, etc?)
Once some more facts are known, which I have yet to see any mention of, aren't we all just spinning our wheels here? Or am I missing the point? Mark
I bought a used pair of MC 501's which I do find that they sound very good with my system. I do wonder why McIntosh doesn't have a transferrable warranty policy as do some of the other amplifier manufacturers. Either they don't have confidence in the quality and durability of their equipment or they do not believe that the majority of their customers take excellent care of their equipment. I bought the 501's on Audiogon from someone with excellent feedback and the amplifiers are in pristine condition. I knew I was taking the risk and that there was no warranty available. Still, it doesn't seem as if McIntosh believes very strongly in the quality of their own products.
I guess people who live in remote areas and who are unable to travel an unreasonable distance are not worthy of owning a new Mac product. McIntosh should put that on their website.
This is outrageous! I've never heard of such a thing. I would contact the head of the service department and talk to him directly. I can understand a manufacturer not wanting to warranty 'grey market' products or products that run on 220Vac as that would be considered a European product. I also understand the problem of having a dealer ship you a product when there was a dealer in you area you could have purchased it from. However, this is not the case in either instance. If you don't get any satisfaction by talking to the manufacturer you may have recourse with the dealer who sold you the unit as it could constitute fraud on their part since they never informed you this would be a problem prior to your purchase. Since they are an authorized dealer/agent for McIntosh. That being said, you never did explain what the problem was with your amp.
Your comments remind me of a problem I have. The closest Mac dealer to me is 250 miles away, and I inquired from a dealer elswhere if he would sell me a C48 Pre, explaining my problem that no way was I driving 500 miles round trip to buy one. A day or two later, the Western Regional Sales Manager contacted me by e-mail, and said that anytime I was ready to buy, he would contact a dealer in Seattle to sell to me and the warranty would apply. He also stated he understood my situation, and although not standard practice for Mac, they would do this in my case. Maybe try appealing to your local regional sales manager and explain the problem to him. Can't hurt.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
